Provincial Cavalry is better than Professional

[Sir Winston Churchill]

How? Its f'ing crazy!

I just had a non-experienced provincial cavalry unit, single handidly defeat 1 unit of professional cavalry and a unit of dragoons. HOW THE HELL DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL!?

Ok, thats it, I'm dropping Empire. I hope CA chokes on the $50 I payed for a piece of crap.

[OberonDark]

A lot of factors, really.

1. Morale (Those 2 professional units could have been the last units on the field)
2. Luck. (It happens.)
3. Those dragoons and professional cavalry could have been exhausted to hell.
4. General ratings and such.
5. Charge bonuses.
6. More if you provide more details.

And what professional cavalry was that? Be specific. Be specific about everything. Give details and I'm sure I can tell you exactly why it happened.

[Abel12512]

A lot of factors, really.

1. Morale (Those 2 professional units could have been the last units on the field)
2. Luck. (It happens.)
3. Those dragoons and professional cavalry could have been exhausted to hell.
4. General ratings and such.
5. Charge bonuses.
6. More if you provide more details.

And what professional cavalry was that? Be specific. Be specific about everything. Give details and I'm sure I can tell you exactly why it happened.

Indeed, it could be all kinds of circumstances!

[Plank of Wood]

How? Its f'ing crazy!

I just had a non-experienced provincial cavalry unit, single handidly defeat 1 unit of professional cavalry and a unit of dragoons. HOW THE HELL DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL!?

Ok, thats it, I'm dropping Empire. I hope CA chokes on the $50 I payed for a piece of crap.

Difficulty, morale, exhaustion, charge bonuses, experiance.

Overall, a pretty petty reason to quit the game and call it crap.

[akinkhoo]

formation.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

What ??
I play on VH and never once has my proffesional cav lost against provincial cavalry in a fair fight(1 on 1).

[Plank of Wood]

What ??
I play on VH and never once has my proffesional cav lost against provincial cavalry in a fair fight(1 on 1).

Exactly.

A fair fight. Not all fights are fair.

[PlacidDragon]

What ??
I play on VH and never once has my proffesional cav lost against provincial cavalry in a fair fight(1 on 1).

Wish i could have said the same

I've tried VH, the typical result of that is that a unit of militia easily spank 2 of my Prussian line infantry regiments (i fire, 2 of their guys drop, they fire, 20 of mine drops). I was in a defensive position, they came walking up to me. I moved one of the line infantry regiments so i could catch them in a crossfire, for all the good that did

[A_Dane]

that seems pretty odd... i normally stay away from vh because of the lame bonuses ai gets (like placiddragon described) and so i usually play normal or just hard, and never once have i seen provincial cav defeat my better units. on hard i had a battle where a group of my cuirassars clashed with one of his provincial cav, he charged me, and still my cuirassars completely slaughtered them, whereafter i sent them to deal with another group which they also defeated... so it seems to me that you must have gotten pretty lucky and have some of the factors mentioned on your side...

[Franbo]

No such thing as a fair fight; all of the factors mentioned by others have a huge effect.

If it was a provincial commanded by a 5 star general (against a simple brigadier) where the provincial charged down a slope and hit exhausted and demoralised units in the flank it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Franbo

[upsettingshorts]

It's also pretty absurd to think that two units, equipped almost exactly the same, would have a decisive advantage over the other despite other factors. The other factors matter!

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Ok lemme sum it up.

No idea on the morale thing, by the time I could tell my guys were already "Shattered".

The cavalry were fresh still, while the provincial were winded from running about a mile to me.

The general in charge was a fresh guy, 3 stars, no traits. Don't see how the general affected me. Enemy General died shortly in the battle to a random cannon ball (hehe).

I had the chage advantage.

By "professional cavalry", I mean the cavalry in the early period that just looks "professional". Line infantry on horses, you know.

I do admit there was a hill and I was on the bottom slope, but I still don't see how the automatically allows my guys to get decimated while the enemy loses like 6 guys. >_>

It was also right in the beggining of the actual fighting. My men were just firing their first vollies at the enemy when this little engagement happened, so I don't see how the progress of the battle actually made a diffrence.

IDK I'll just play on N/N from now on, I just think this game is just so stupid so far. People like Courland having massive armies even though they shouldn't have the economy to keep one, "we won't give you this slum-hole of a province for all your gold, tech, and etc.!!! YOU'LL TAKE IT FROM OUR DEAD HANDS BIOOTTTCCHHHHH", etc.

>_>

[OberonDark]

....Dragoons, you mean?...Lol. They suck as cavalry. They're line infantry, and the horses are only for transporting them.

Provincial cavalry actually are cavalry. Cavalry > Foot men on horses.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

....Dragoons, you mean?...Lol. They suck as cavalry. They're line infantry, and the horses are only for transporting them.

Provincial cavalry actually are cavalry. Cavalry > Foot men on horses.

No I know about Dragoons, i'm talking about that other unit. Seriously, take a regular line infantryman, put him on a horse. Thats the cavalry im talking about.

Not Dragoons, I don't mean they get on or off or have guns.

[Faris ad Din]

In later Total War games after RTW, a lot of it indeed comes down to what seems like luck with animation-based combat in M2:TW. Even in games before RTW like Shogun and Medieval 1.

Taking into account that most combatant units don't fight in formation - they scatter about like so many marbles - the side who gets in more melee combatants and have them killing, over the side who is more scattered about and isolated, and has more men standing about waiting for their turn to be killed - has an advantage.

L = losing side W = winning side

L L L L L L L L L L
W L L L L L L L W
W___________W
WLWLWLWLWLW
WWWWWWWW

That's just one crude illustration and example. In RTW where combat was down to stats and not animation, combat outcomes were more consistent and predictable. In M2TW and ETW, animation based, there's a lot more room for different outcomes. You won't necessarily win through sheer numbers and quality. When I am engaging in melee combat, every so often I RUN my men in the direction across the enemy so as to really pack them in and cause more killing (and fresh men come to the front line and you don't rely on the same tired men) - I lose one or two while they're running, but right after that the enemy starts dropping like flies. I rinse and repeat.

Also try to flank them a bit - this has some effect on the single-unit level where people wrap their widened formations around enemy units. Practiced since Shogun and M1:TW.

From the excellent Complete Total War Unit Guide (up through M1:TW) by frogbeastegg.

http://www.totalwar.org/strategy/twug/mtw/C3.html

"When you use swordsmen against anything other than cavalry you should deploy them in two ranks, this allows the formation to wrap around the enemies flanks when combat is engaged and this in turn allows the swordsmen to do much more damage. It also adds a morale penalty to the enemy. If you do not deploy your swords so they can wrap around at least one flank they can struggle to fight as effectively as you might wish. This two rank deployment is especially important when you charge a unit of spears as they will hold their formation together for much longer if the swordsmen cannot attack from the sides, the longer the spears hold formation the more damage they can do to your swords."

Not the same game, but this same principle should apply still.

1. Morale (Those 2 professional units could have been the last units on the field)
2. Luck. (It happens.)
3. Those dragoons and professional cavalry could have been exhausted to hell.
4. General ratings and such.
5. Charge bonuses.
6. More if you provide more details.

7. In-combat soldier scattering.

Thank you.