A way to make nations appear less cookie cutter...?

[SirVulf]

I was thinking about the fact that pretty much all nations within ETW are cookie cutter. Sure a couple of nations have unique units, but that pretty much leaves everyone else without the SFE or pre-ordered units in the dust.

How about different tech trees for different nations? Make it a little harder for enemy Gentlemen to steal technology. (I don't see how a professional assassin, i.e. Rake, only gets a 30% chance to kill a Gentleman) and if they steal the technology you get the benefit of it.

Using the Prussians as an example:

1. The Prussians used iron ram rods with their muskets which improved their firing rate almost 3-fold over those with wooden ramrods. http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/in..._tactics_2.htm (rate of musket fire heading)
   This gives Prussian Line/Elite Infantry a higher firing rate than other nations
2. The Prussians invented the Needlegun or Zündnadelgewehr, which was pretty much the first cartridge firing rifle. This effected a firing rate of 10 - 12 rounds a minute and the infantryman was able to reload in the prone position! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Needle_gun
   Again, this would also give a much larger firing rate to Line Infantry and elite units.
3. How about the invention of the Prussian General Staff system which essentially created a command structure from the Brigade level all the way to the National level.
   Maybe this should decrease the amount of upkeep of all military units?

For other nations make other research available relative to the period. If there is a similar style of research available, and someone stole research that "conflicts" with one's own research, give that player a choice to choose which one they want to keep.

[Maidel]

For other nations make other research available relative to the period. If there is a similar style of research available, and someone stole research that "conflicts" with one's own research, give that player a choice to choose which one they want to keep.

All sounds good - and im sure that people will do just this when the full modding tools are released.

However - i dont like the bit ive quoted. I agree that at the start different nations should start with differing levels of technology - some were better with ships, some with infantry, some with farming etc.

However you shouldnt limit them to how it progressed historically - everyone starts at the right point, but from their history should be allowed to re-write itself. Doesnt make sense otherwise. Would have been a bit like in Medieval II if at a set date the portuguese/spanish got a load of gold in their treasury, just because historically columbus found america and they started taking back inca gold. Sure, historically thats what happened - but thats bugger all use if it was the byzantiums who did it in the game.

[SirVulf]

I guess I wasn't too clear with that. I didn't imply that they totally stole the technology. Just that you made "copies of the blueprints" and have the capability to build the same technology if need be.

For example, Prussia has the Needlegun and stole research for the Bolt Action (just hypothetical here). Which one do they want to keep? They both do relatively the same thing, one may have a better bonus over another...

That's the idea I had...

[akinkhoo]

the general staff just improve the generalship, it did not save cost. the prussia model cut the officer from the men they command to increase professionism in the command structure, the mass in today's military separate the officers from men is inherited from the prussia model. the 'cost saving' reserve system didn't appear until later when they needed to preserve prussian/german fighting force after defeat in war that force them to undertake massive disbandment and troop limitations, the shorten active duty allow them to rotate more men and maintain a large force in reserve that could be remobilized. it was more of a necessity. the general staff did allow faster troop movement due to pre-planning, prussia win by the speed of their deployment, only the men that reach the battle matters and that would later be copied in the warfare of the napoleonic era.

the sad thing about this game is the turn based nature really limits the impact of how you deploy. i feel some of the ROTK games really implemented the "world map" better; they might be simple but very effective.

[SirVulf]

the general staff just improve the generalship, it did not save cost. the prussia model cut the officer from the men they command to increase professionism in the command structure, the mass in today's military separate the officers from men is inherited from the prussia model. the 'cost saving' reserve system didn't appear until later when they needed to preserve prussian/german fighting force after defeat in war that force them to undertake massive disbandment and troop limitations, the shorten active duty allow them to rotate more men and maintain a large force in reserve that could be remobilized. it was more of a necessity. the general staff did allow faster troop movement due to pre-planning, prussia win by the speed of their deployment, only the men that reach the battle matters and that would later be copied in the warfare of the napoleonic era.

the sad thing about this game is the turn based nature really limits the impact of how you deploy. i feel some of the ROTK games really implemented the "world map" better; they might be simple but very effective.

I understand that.. (was in the US Navy). I was trying to just use that as an example. You can't really quantify the General Staff within ETW other than being able to recruit more experienced troops I guess. Having a more experienced General in ETW wouldn't give you but squat and sh it. Given that the levels of element/unit sizes are extremely F'd up, I would have to assume that each unit in a stack actually has it's own general and if the General Staff model applies, thereby more experience to start with.

If I recall, it goes Group - Division - Regiment - Battalion - Company - Platoon - Squad - Fireteam - Infantryman... so... at BEST... in any of the TW's you're not controlling Regiments, but Companies and a stack would be the Battalion.

That's neither here nor there... back to on topic... would you approve of the method mentioned in the OP to increase variance in the Nations? Vote please