Pike and Shot formation

[danielc]

Late 16th century English pamphlet showing a pike and shot formation. The "p" marks are the pikemen, the "o" marks are the shot -- musketeers and arquebusiers.

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Wikipedia has a nice article describing the usage of this formation during the late middle-ages, in case anybody wants to try recreate it in-game.

[ivanhoex]

one or two nice exploding cannonballs... and they´d all gone forever XD

(or mangonel´s barrels)

[El Chupanibre]

Has anyone tried this in game? Not only does it leave you with huge flanks, but if the enemy has any cavalry they'll make mincemeat of your 'shot'. Personally I like this late formation:

pppppp ppppppp ppppppp ppppppp
ooooo oooooo ooooo

Then guard your flanks with cavalry, halberds, or heavy infantry.


--damn. i can't get it to display right. but the idea is blocks of pikemen spaced evenly and behind them muskets to shoot through the gaps.

[ivanhoex]

the only time i have ever reached dlv´s gunpowder era, i used a more lose approach.

i usually go for a

........spear spear spear spear spear spear.....
cavalry - heavy heavy heavy heavy - cavalry
.................missile missile missile...................
............................general.............................
...............................spear..............................



but when i switched to gunpowder i mostly used:


gun gun...................stakes stakes stakes..................gun gun
pike pike..................gun . gun . gun . gun.................pike pike
cavalry....................pike......pike......pike..................cavalry
...............................heavy..heavy...heavy............................
................................archer archer archer.............................
..........................................general........................................
...........................................cavalry........................................

(heavy infantry between pike lines, to add melee punch almost in the same line, archers with stakes, set stakes and go back)

the flank troops had independence on the field, they are supossed to outflank the enemy and find high ground to be allowed to keep shooting every stone they carry with the minimal risk.
havent tried that with the new battle AI from taiji, so i cant promise its efectivity
pikes give them the chance to pin enemies coming to get them, while the cavs if not needed to defend them are allowed to go and harass enemy missiles and charge from their rear


the guns in the main body are not there to stand ground, once melee is near they retreat and try to join the flanks, they will probably be useful to destroy any enemy that has engaged with the flank´s pikemen, or at least to destroy their morale.

[danielc]

Remember that real life behaviour is not what we exactly get in the game. So perhaps that formation easy to take out under game mechanics, but in reality it was not like that.

This is the formation I like to use:


Gunners ------Pike Pike Pike------ Gunners
-----------Pike LB LB LB LB Pike ----------
---------- HI --------- HI --------- HI -------
HCavalry --------- General -------- HCavalry

LCavalry ------------------------- LCavalry


LB = Longbowmen
HI = Heavy Infantry

If I have cannons I'll remove two units of cavalry and use those two slots for that. If no gunners are available, I use sherwood archers, or crossbowmen as the main skirmishers.

BTW, shouldn't billmen be able to form a spear wall just like pikemen?

[Kjertesvein]

You can mod it in. The blll of the billmen are pretty short. I tryed it, in 5.8, and the enemy cavalry just steamrolled my billmen.

[Taiji]

Halberd's spearwall anims aren't working well enough to be implemented. Perhaps the player can work around the problem but the AI can't so I dropped them. When I say they aren't working well enough I mean there are situations in which the spear wall will cause massive casualties for the halberdeers using it. The player can work around it by turning spearwall off when it s up but the AI will not turn it off.

You can still use your halberds to take cav charges but it takes opportunity and skill. Counter charging the cav with your halberds in loose formation can result in the halbs not taking too many casualties while delivering plenty. It might not be historically accurate but it gives you an option to use them as a cav charge counter.

[Alatar98]

when i get to gunpowder i set out a line of pike then just in front of them set a single line of gun men, that way they can all fire since rank file hasn't been figured out yet

[Xtiaan72]

Check out the 'Warriors' series on the history channel. Some interesting stuff in it this week about Pike and Musket formations at The Battle of Malta (Knights of St Johns)... They do some demonstrations. Good Stuff!