Different battle AI for different general personalities?

**Destraex** · April 12, 2009, 12:09 AM

I read something somewhere about the AI tactics being different for different battlefield personalities.
This was to break up the standard AI that plays the same no matter what faction u fight.

Did this ever happen?

**Caliburn** · April 12, 2009, 03:27 AM

Haven't noticed any battle AI. Is that feature included in the new patch?

**NovaColonel** · April 12, 2009, 04:44 AM

Originally Posted by Caliburn

Haven't noticed any battle AI. Is that feature included in the new patch?

For M2TW and ETW, there is a simple explanation. At first glance, it might seem that the A (left out the "I" on purpose) is dumb as a rock, but then I noticed that it's just a genuine feature: Most of the times you will fight captains or low quality generals with one or two command stars only, and the A perfectly reflects that by behaving utterly stupid.
That's a huge immersion bonus also in ETW, and reflects that officers would buy their rank back then, without any actual knowledge of what those long wooden boomsticks are good for.
+Realism FTW!

...

I really wonder how CA managed to achieve such a loss in terms of AI quality compared to earlier titles. MTW was perfectly challenging - long, intense, immersive battles with lots of large-scale movement. Anyone remember the epic battles with tons of reinforcements during the reconquista? That were times ...

**GODzilla** · April 12, 2009, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by NovaColonel

I really wonder how CA managed to achieve such a loss in terms of AI quality compared to earlier titles. MTW was perfectly challenging - long, intense, immersive battles with lots of large-scale movement. Anyone remember the epic battles with tons of reinforcements during the reconquista? That were times ...

It's really amazing how the human brain works in terms of selective perception and how memories seem to change over time, presenting a falsified "knowledge" to it's user.

**A_Dane** · April 12, 2009, 05:43 AM

so far in my battles the ai has actually done way better than in m2tw, in most of the battles i fight it actually try to spread out its fire instead of charging head on, and if i try to flank it with cav they send some cav out to intercept followed by 1 or 2 infantry regiments to shoot at my cavs back... might just have been lucky, but happened quite a few times now

**Akbar** · April 12, 2009, 04:56 AM

Uhh....I remember enemy knights charging headlong into stakes. Time after time after time.

Nowadays they can be pretty good at finding weak spots in my line. I think that the AI has improved somewhat actually, even though I´m still to detect different personalities

**blank** · April 12, 2009, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by Akbar

Nowadays they can be pretty good at finding weak spots in my line. I think that the AI has improved somewhat actually, even though I´m still to detect different personalities

Really? How come my A(I) always bunches up it's units in the middle of my line, reforms it's formations for half an hour and then proceeds to shoot it's own men to death?

Oh i now recall that there is in fact another "personality", namely the one where the A(I) sends it's units to your line one by one to get raped.

Haven't noticed any battle AI. Is that feature included in the new patch?

No CA won't be adding any new features in patches. Maybe in an expansion?

**worm00** · April 12, 2009, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Akbar

Uhh....I remember enemy knights charging headlong into stakes. Time after time after time.

Nowadays they can be pretty good at finding weak spots in my line. I think that the AI has improved somewhat actually, even though I´m still to detect different personalities

NovaColonel meant the original medieval, not MTW2. And he is right, in Medieval (and Shogun, yes, I'm old) the AI at very hard was sth of a challenge.

Since Rome it's all downhill, as far as battle difficulty goes...

Edit: GODzilla sais the same thing; guys the OP isn't comparing to MTW2 but MTW, and he is right. Shogun and MTW were harder (in a good way), RTW, MTW2 and ETW are fancier in many respects, but the core gameplay experience is hardly better -- especially in the battle map.

The only salvation in my book is multiplayer campaign...

**Akbar** · April 12, 2009, 05:16 AM

Dunno. Mine doesn´t. Except for the "one unit at a time" thing when enemy reinforcements arrive.

**spanish_emperor** · April 12, 2009, 05:52 AM

something new to put in the 1000 things i learnt from ETW

**johannlo** · April 12, 2009, 07:38 AM

Its definitely 'smarter' than M2TW. DIdn't play M1. Rome / shogun was too long ago to remember clearly BUT I hazily recall shogun being pretty good with the AI.

They definitely do some 'smart' things sometimes, one battle they used a bloody refused flank and came charging through dense terrain where I least expected it a la Wermacht 1941 ardennes forest. Still being the AI and me sticking to sound total war principles I had enough reserves to commit to the weak flank to survive long enough for my 'hammer' to roll up their line nicely. But it could have been a fluke.

They definitely have a hardon for artillery, and are definitely not so blissfully ignorant to flanking moves now, but still several big notches below a semi-competent human player. Assuming even odds you can get 4:1, 5:1 kill/death ratios without being anything more than just a decent player. I have noticed that when they don't throw their cavalry away in a suicide mission to take out your arty, they get round the back pretty effectively causing a lot of annoyance, too bad their main line is usually to steamrollered for it to matter lol.

If they fixed the running around moronically reforming their lines whilst you're already shooting at them, wholeheartedly swallowing sacrificial bait, and being willing to sit back and take arty pounding when clearly outgunned (and any human AI would immediately advance ASAP) then it would actually be the best TW AI in my opinion and a real challenge for newbs.

Also fire by rank should be on by default for everyone at the start. If you focus on researching it (and if not, WHY NOT lol) then from when you get it till the computer gets it its blitzkrieg time and the game is effectively over as a challenge.

**Akbar** · April 12, 2009, 08:38 AM

I see. Haven`t played MTW. Will do.

Still, I remain convinced that AI quality has improved a lot since RTW. Haven`t seen a single General suicide yet, have noticed enemy trying to avoid my firing zones etc. Still not much of a challenge, but improved.

**Sir Winston Churchill** · April 12, 2009, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Destraex

I read something somewhere about the AI tactics being different for different battlefield personalities.
This was to break up the standard AI that plays the same no matter what faction u fight.

Did this ever happen?

Nope, yet another lie to mark down that CA said.

**Destraex** · April 12, 2009, 09:08 AM

I will have to see if I can find the quote somewhere. I think it was in one of the preview videos.... i could be going crazy.

**Akbar** · April 12, 2009, 09:10 AM

Oh they said it alright. I remember it clearly.

**Sir Winston Churchill** · April 12, 2009, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Akbar

Oh they said it alright. I remember it clearly.

I do to.

Like I said, this is just another lie to mark down.

**Deathofjams** · April 20, 2009, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Isaristh

I do to.

Like I said, this is just another lie to mark down.

Or, perhaps, another feature taken out because it didn't work. I seriously doubt that at the time there were thinking "tee hee, this will trick them into buying the game, we never tried to put this in at all!" If it said it on the box, then it would be a lie.

In regards to AI difficulty, it's definitely smarter than previous TWs, but in relative terms it's still easier to beat because the style of warfare in Empire requires better tactics to be successful. In Medieval any monkey could put up a good fight by sending all their units to melee, and if they had more people or better troops they stood a good chance of winning. In Empire that doesn't work. Now the player needs to think about fields of fire etc., which is something that even the improved AI isn't so good at. Plus there are fewer cheap units like missile cavalry for the AI to spam.

Although they did take out one feature from Medieval 2 (or perhaps it was only in Kingdoms) that I liked- if the AI was losing it would perform an ordered retreat from battle. Now the AI never, ever, retreats, which is silly.

**Humble Warrior** · April 20, 2009, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Akbar

Oh they said it alright. I remember it clearly.

Yes they did. They mentioned Generals would have different personalities affecting how battles were fought. I`ve looked hard and haven`t seen it, although the rest of the bugs kinda cloud my findings.

What I did notice sometimes was whenever I killed their General, their army would pause for about 10 seconds as if they didn`t know what to do.

However, it`s hard to tell if that was a reaction to a dead General or just an AI glitch. With the amount of bugs in this game I would have to say that chances are General AI personalities are not in... yet.

**Razor** · April 20, 2009, 05:03 AM

The AI of ETW reacts to what you're doing I noticed. However the AI indeed is shooting its own men because the lines overlap each other because the units are apparently targeting units individually rather than what the player often does: use the fire at will option and let the army stand in formation. Highly annoying.