A way to help deal with an issue dealing with Somali Pirates

[Farnan]

One problem with piracy in Somali is there is no place to send captured pirates. This is a huge issue and prevents the anti-piracy campaign from being successful. However, this latest case gave me an idea, how about temporarily flagging every ship in the Gulf of Aden as American and then reflagging them upon leaving the Gulf. The US law enables us to persecute any illegal activity aboard a US flagged ship, even in international waters. Thus when pirates are captured you can send them to the US, where we will try them (and not seek the death penalty to prevent legal issues in extradition).

This will be an excellent solution as we can jail them and its not like your sending them to a third world country where they wouldn't have legal rights.

[cottontail]

GAH! No! I don't want to pay for these criminals. Send them to Mexico.

Although the idea is good, I just don't want to pay for them. I vote that we just give the ships machineguns to protect themselves.

[Farnan]

GAH! No! I don't want to pay for these criminals. Send them to Mexico.

Although the idea is good, I just don't want to pay for them. I vote that we just give the ships machineguns to protect themselves.

Other nations can agree to help pay the cost of imprisoning them. However the idea is to make the opportunity costs too high to do so.

[Giuliano Taverna]

What is this nonsense? They are pirates, hang them!

[Farnan]

US Law has been updated since then, now the mandatory sentence is life in prison.

[Giuliano Taverna]

US Law has been updated since then, now the mandatory sentence is life in prison.

And you call that an update? How is me paying for this guys food and board for the next 20-30 years better than me getting to watch him hang from a rope?

Hell sell tickets, it would be a revenue producer!

[The Dude]

Shoot them dead. Simple as.

Why capture Somali pirates? Pouring barrels of hot oil over them as they ascend the ship also works. At least, it did in medieval times when attackers were scaling castle walls. I reckon a ship's hull isn't much different.

[Boyar Son]

Shoot them dead. Simple as.

Why capture Somali pirates? Pouring barrels of hot oil over them as they ascend the ship also works. At least, it did in medieval times when attackers were scaling castle walls. I reckon a ship's hull isn't much different.

oh, but some people want to play nice. a first world response to a 3rd world threat. and still say the moral high ground beats the logical one.

[GrnEyedDvl]

US Law has been updated since then, now the mandatory sentence is life in prison.

Only if you actually capture them. There is nothing that says they all survived when their ship sank.

[roy34543]

Why bother with the formalities at all ? I mean by arbitrarely flagging a ship as US ship when its not your basically non-conforming with international law, You cant just "deem" a ship to be a US ship as you wish, No more then you could go up to a person on a street and decide hes an illegal immigrant.
Sure I mean its not neccasarily a bad idea, but why even bother in the first place, People will support you for jailing them irregardless if your doing it in a legal way or not (or at least the people who arent crazy anti-american legal nitpickers anyway, Which i assure you there will be few of in this case)

[IrishHitman]

I think the machinegun idea would be cheaper.....
Legal costs are sky high.

[Tudor]

The biggest problem with addressing Somali piracy is in fact defining the rules of engagement. All ships are sovereign territory of their respective countries, so it is legal for their respective countries to take action if anything goes amiss on their ships. The catch is, of course, that there's not much Panama can do if a ship under Panamanian colors is attacked in the Gulf of Aden. However, it would be much easier to draw up a treaty allowing mutual intervention by the navies of all concerned states aboard any threatened ships registered in a country which is party to the said treaty. It would definitely be easier to do this, then to bypass all the marine safety regulations that have to be passed in order to flag a ship under a different banner. There is a reason why everybody and their mother registers ships in Panama, you know ? (hint: lower safety standards and smaller taxes). Moreover, this way one wouldn't have to deal with all the national pride issues involved.

The real problem, however, is the risk incurred by the hostage crews and the cargo itself in case of direct intervention by warships on patrol in the area. Some countries deem that risk too high and prefer to negotiate. Some ship owners might also consider the loss of, say, a fully loaded oil tanker too much of a risk to accept. That is in fact why the warships in the area have their hands tied.

Which brings me to my own point. I can't understand why the more proactive approach hasn't been considered yet. If some cargo is too valuable to risk, than why doesn't everybody agree and run a convoying scheme under international protection? It doesn't take more than a frigate to guard any number of merchantmen from a bunch of pirates. We aren't talking about Doenitz's wolf packs, after all. Or, if that is too complicated, a consignment of armed marines could be posted on any merchantman in the area and recovered by other patrolling warships after the freighter leaves the dangerous area. I'd love to see pirates attack that.

Now, aside from such grandiose plans, I find the French attitude the best up to this point. I'm sure that pirates will soon learn that the only gain to be had from attacking a French ship is a bucket of lead lodged in your ribcage. Now if all other countries involved would agree, we could change that to the prize of any attack being a bonus torpedo from one of Her Majesty's Ships, of alternately, from a US vessel. I'm sure these people would enjoy their promotional delivery, complete with engine, primer and payload.

By the way, it took a long time for the pirates to develop the logistics required to run their trade on the scale seen nowadays. I'm sure that if they can be robbed of any significant catch for 6 months or so, all this support network will fall to pieces.

[Boyar Son]

so to have huge moral balls we bring them to court, then imprison? costing $$ to feed cloth and legal cost..


kill them. that's pretty cheap and it's what some people only respect.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

One problem with piracy in Somali is there is no place to send captured pirates. This is a huge issue and prevents the anti-piracy campaign from being successful. However, this latest case gave me an idea, how about temporarily flagging every ship in the Gulf of Aden as American and then reflagging them upon leaving the Gulf. The US law enables us to persecute any illegal activity aboard a US flagged ship, even in international waters. Thus when pirates are captured you can send them to the US, where we will try them (and not seek the death penalty to prevent legal issues in extradition).

This will be an excellent solution as we can jail them and its not like your sending them to a third world country where they wouldn't have legal rights.

Piracy is a capital crime, so I don't see why we can't just string them up on the Somali coastline. I doubt the Somali government (which has very little power in a lot of the country) would protest. Even if they did, what could they do?

[Aetius]

Piracy is a capital crime, so I don't see why we can't just string them up on the Somali coastline. I doubt the Somali government (which has very little power in a lot of the country) would protest. Even if they did, what could they do?

Might makes right?

[IronBrig4]

Why are we even debating this? They're pirates! Hang them from the yardarm! Perhaps it's time London used Execution Dock for its original purpose again.

[Homeros]

Piracy is a capital crime, so I don't see why we can't just string them up on the Somali coastline. I doubt the Somali government (which has very little power in a lot of the country) would protest. Even if they did, what could they do?

What Somalian Government are you talking about, there hasn't been a government for years, not to mention that those who claim to be 'the government' are in the pirate-biz too, which is pretty lucrative by the way.

so to have huge moral balls we bring them to court, then imprison? costing $$ to feed cloth and legal cost..

kill them. that's pretty cheap and it's what some people only respect.

Life imprisonment is actually a lot cheaper than execution. Some US states have stopped executing prisoners due to the current financial crisis.

Its far more complicated than most people here are suggesting. The best way to deal with them is to refuse negotiations and ransom. Although not very pleasant for the crews taken hostage, its the most effective way to reduce piracy.

[Boyar Son]

Life imprisonment is actually a lot cheaper than execution. Some US states have stopped executing prisoners due to the current financial crisis.

Its far more complicated than most people here are suggesting. The best way to deal with them is to refuse negotiations and ransom. Although not very pleasant for the crews taken hostage, its the most effective way to reduce piracy.

lulz that's not what i meant, you take it that i actually want them brought back here! lol! terminate target on sight.

refuse negotiation and ransom takes out 2 very important options. of lying. lol. the US has a strict policy of no monetary concessions(plainly-no giving stuff) to people like these, whether it's enforced i don't know.

and for them to know that, we won't give money away, they'll need several examples to test your theory. (taking hostage several times, one "NO" to them won't give them the point, so they'll keep trying). they don't have CNN, so they won't know what our policies are and aren't.


yea pretty much lets shoot 'em. like who would seriously care besides a bleeding heart fool that lost touch with reality.

[Henry of Grosmont]

Most of you are forgetting that Kidd (concerning the picture on the first page) was captured, tried and executed. And he had a good chance of escaping the noose. People tend to exaggerate the rigidness of the pirate trials back then.

As for taking on them while their boats remain on the coast, it's impossible. How are you going to distinguish between a real fish boat and a fake fish boat. Plus, if they aren't captured during the act of piracy (or there's witness - which I highly doubt would be able to recognize anyone) what can you do?

[Farnan]

Piracy is a capital crime, so I don't see why we can't just string them up on the Somali coastline. I doubt the Somali government (which has very little power in a lot of the country) would protest. Even if they did, what could they do?

Somalia has no government, which is the problem. And piracy isn't a capital crime anymore, I checked.