A few ideas (I'm sure you've heard that title before o_o)

[Flyboy]

I suppose questions should actually go on the question topic, but seeing as no one does that and this seams to get answers a little faster I might as well. I don't expect any of these to get answered frankly (very secretive EB is) but it might spark some discussion.

Anyway, I have a few questions, mainly having to do with the engine regarding the rebel faction. Obviously it's impossible to include every faction and distinction, and frankly I don't think it's desired either. However the universal rebel/free people faction I think needs a bit of work in all mods. Firstly, it's obvious that all of these areas weren't united, and in many cases fought each other. However you'll never see in game a rebel army sieging another rebel town or something along those lines. I believe that the only way of implementing such a system is through adding another faction, which I'm aware is clearly not on the agenda of this team, however, there are a few ways of making the Elutheroi a bit more scattered, or at least more realistic.

1. Overall should be more aggressive. Very, very, very rarely do I ever get sieged by a rebel faction, and when I do it's usually because a small band of brigands spawned in my territory. There are many occasions in history, so many I shouldn't bother listing them, where tribes, cities or nations that EB can't fit in to their roster started wars on local nations or conducted raids. If the Elutheroi were more aggressive, rather than just chilling out in their own cities, it would simulate these kind of attacks and make players consider them as something of nations rather than just buffers between states.

2. Despite the above, certain groups were relatively peaceful, either that or generally sided with the greater power. For example, during the first punic war Syracuse joined Rome against the Carthaginians. In the last game the only way to simulate that is to march an army up the walls of the city, kill half of the population so they didn't rebel, and then wait a few turns to establish the necessary barracks so it would be useful in the war...that’s if you didn't win it already. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen. You could also use the "bribe" feature to get them to your side, but in the early game it's essentially useless as you need excess a few hundred thousand to get a city (usually) which is almost impossible to get without cheats or a huge starting nation.

My idea is for cities or tribes like Syracuse, Massilia, Greek polis' in general, Arabian Tribes, certain Celtic tribes, and a bunch of other cities that surely existed but I just don't have the background to name, have particular governors. Some governors will be extremely nationalist and independent, pretty much impossible to bribe, while others could be bribed easily (even though bribes really would be more like intensives to ally). Independent cities might be harder to keep control of after conquest as well. In order to preserve these attitudes there should always be the "like his father" trait among the elutheroi, so independent states stay independent, while those who ally will continue to do so.

To keep allies from being abused (as in they ally then are instantly turned to a type II government rather than what they would prefer as a type IV) bribed rebels could develop something like an interloper trait, except more sever where the city becomes extremely pissed at this unfair change in rule and rebels. If that’s not possible then there probably are some scripts that could do this. If neither are possible then I still think it's better to be able to make alliances with the Elutheroi rather than always resorting to military action or insane 200 thousand bribes.

3. Local barracks should always work with Type IV governments. If a province is allowed to maintain its independence, then in a sense that means it retains the same leaders of the state, the same military commanders, the same customs, the same smiths warriors and officers. Why then when a province falls under the dominion of my nations, whether it be by war or treaty, that I have to start completely over with the barracks construction. If all these things essentially remain the same, aside from the fact that they are ruled by me, then I shouldn't have to spend twenty five turns building barracks to use their effective units. And that’s not considering the fact that I have to keep the population happy, protected and growing. I'm not saying that there should be one uniform barracks that allows the recruitment of all local units, I just think that if a city is allowed to be independent then the local barracks it started out with should work with any faction. If a city has the highest level of barracks when it joins my faction that doesn't mean I should have to destroy it and start fresh because it's Hellenic or Celtic and I'm not.

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This is all I can remember right now but there was another one that has been on my mind concerning Elutheroi that I can't exactly remember right now, I'll add it if I do. I don't want to come off as a noob suggesting stupid ideas to the EB team, if these ideas are not on your list, then by all means disregard me (I'm pretty sure we're all going to be disregarded with most ideas, I assume that this team has almost everything preplanned). However I do think Elutheroi should be more focused on seeing as they have to represent hundreds of cities and nations at once, and remain with the simple "we'll just wait here in this city until you attack us" plan doesn't really encompass what they could or really should be, which is a diverse group of independent nations that often allied or enemied against the included factions.

[delra]

Some good ideas you have there.

From what I've read in the questions thread, the old system of Type IV governments and local barracks will be gone and replaced by something completely new. So suggestions how to fix it probably are pointless.

[eggthief]

Being able to bribe settlements really easy doesn't sound that great to me. I think the DoTS team was going to do some feature that allows you as France e.g. to manipulate 'allied' rebels to do what you want them to do. I like that idea more than easy bribes. But I do agree that it sucks that Rebels dont fight each other, but I doubt that it is easy to reconstruct this with the TW engine.

[Flyboy]

*Nods head to both above*

Oh yeah, and the one I forgot was really an actual question.
Anyone hear anything about how they intend to use the pre-battle speeches? I'm pretty sure we don't want to hear "those damn Scottish" when we fight the Caladonians or Casse.

[lenin96]

They will probably be in native languages. I think I heard someone on the team say that though I could be wrong.

[Ludens]

They will probably be in native languages. I think I heard someone on the team say that though I could be wrong.

The team is working on creating Greek battlespeeches, and I suppose it would also be possible with the Romans, but with the other factions it's next to impossible. Their languages cannot be reconstructed in enough detail to do this.

[lenin96]

What about Pahlavan? I read on Wikipedia that it's very similar to modern Persian.

[Flyboy]

I do hope if they go with native languages they provide subtitles, for those linguistically impaired among us.


P.S. New forum

[eddy_purpus]

i agree Flyboy...
;P
but being the EB team the ones making this mod ;P
i dont think we will lack any subtitles xD

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The plan is to include subtitles. Part of EB is learning history and you can't learn from EB if it is "just Greek to you".

[eddy_purpus]

I love you EB teeam..
i really Love you.


Lets hope you ever get attention from a company that makes games like these
and lets you make ur own

[Optimus Marcus Ulpius Traianus]

one thing i would really like to see is the ability for cities to surrender as it is more realistic and less annoying.also more diplomatic opyions like client kingdom vassel state and a better system for a tribute to dicourage attacks eg roman to german

[oudysseos]

Optimus, some of the things that you suggest are just not in the game: we can only work with what we have. I know that these 'suggestions' threads are mostly idle spam, but it would help keep things more on track if you informed yourself about what the game engine is actually capable of. The TWC forums are full of tutorials.

[eddy_purpus]

I agree with the Wise Oudysseos.

[Optimus Marcus Ulpius Traianus]

oh right sorry didnt know you had to work with the games paramaters

[ThePianist]

Well, for ancient Greek, if it can't be reconstructed, just use modern Greek, or Koinon Greek (which is New Testament Greek). There are speakers of both of these around.
If ancient Pahlavan can't be reconstructed, just use modern Persian.
Same for ancient Sauromatae and Saka. Just find someone who can speak, I don't know, Central Asian languages? Maybe Dari and Kazakh.

Also, if you could include one little piece of China so the faction is in, that would be great...(and for "ancient" language, you can use someone who speaks a dialect - there are so many and many are incomprehensible, and dialects really do descend from ancient Chinese - as long as it's not Mandarin nor Cantonese, those are too common)

[Ludens]

Well, for ancient Greek, if it can't be reconstructed, just use modern Greek, or Koinon Greek (which is New Testament Greek).

EB1 already does better than that: it includes an Atthic Greek voicemod.

China is not going to be included for a couple of reasons. 1) There was no such thing as China at this point, just a group of warring states. 2) If you included China only partially, the Chinese faction would have to expand into the EB map area, even though it's natural area of expansion (and main rivals) were elsewhere. 3) It would be practically impossible for a Chinese army to reach EB's more civilized areas. An army can't cross the Himalayas with pre-modern logistics, and crossing the steppe is courting disaster.

[oudysseos]

Why would Ancient Greek need to be reconstructed? The language and is well known by thousands of classical scholars with an immense corpus of material. There are languages that we do have to reconstruct to some extent: all the Celtic ones, for instance, and Punic, but not Greek or Latin.