Whens Guns Save

[Da Skinna]

So there's now 2 more dead in Michigan from gun violence, and I want to know something.

Is it a myth that more guns means less chances of crime? Do they really deter would-be criminals?

Is it the media reporting only the times when guns kill rather than save?

I want to see some statistics, because as far as it now, the media portrays gun violence being much higher than gun-deterrents.

What are your thoughts?

[C-Rob]

Well, think about the times when it isn't reported. Like, a guy wants to break into a house when someone is home, makes too much sound while outside, the owner comes out with a shotgun, the guy sneaks off and the home owner thinks it was a dog or something. I think it's probably much more difficult to find statistics for the good, rather than the bad.

[Kiljan Arslan]

The thing that sucks about the second amendment is that they forgot to add a provision for an idiot test.

[C-Rob]

The thing that sucks about the second amendment is that they forgot to add a provision for an idiot test.

That would make it so that they could keep them from minorities. Think blacks, voting, and literacy tests.

[Kiljan Arslan]

That would make it so that they could keep them from minorities. Think blacks, voting, and literacy tests.

I was joking because how would you make a test?

[C-Rob]

I was joking because how would you make a test?

Okay. Very carefully?

I kinda' have to agree with the Mango.

Maybe not outright BAN cars,Vseslavich , but actually make it feasible to do without them more. In all this stimulus garbage, is there anywhere that says, "Infrastructure suitable for pedestrian traffic" or "public transportation creation"?

[the_mango55]

2 DEAD IN MICHIGAN?

OMG!

WHATEVER SHALL WE DO?!


I don't mean to trivialize any deaths, but when there are millions of deaths every year, you have to trivialize the ones that don't personally affect you.

[Heathen Hammer]

Lets ban cars. Hundreds die each day.

[Mr. Pink]

Lets ban cars. Hundreds die each day.

People don't get into their cars with the intent of killing someone.

[C-Rob]

People don't get into their cars with the intent of killing someone.

It may be common, but not everyone buys a gun with the intent of killing someone. And your sentence isn't even true, either. There are instances of premeditated vehicular homicide.

[Gobmech]

It may be common, but not everyone buys a gun with the intent of killing someone. And your sentence isn't even true, either. There are instances of premeditated vehicular homicide.

Dude...

Dude...

Killing is the purpose of guns. If you buy a gun, it's because you want to kill someone with it (for whatever reason).

The difference between cars and guns here is that cars have other purposes. Transportation being a prime example.

You can't very much get into your gun and drive to work, can you?

[the_mango55]

Dude...

Dude...

Killing is the purpose of guns. If you buy a gun, it's because you want to kill someone with it (for whatever reason).

The difference between cars and guns here is that cars have other purposes. Transportation being a prime example.

You can't very much get into your gun and drive to work, can you?

I own 3 guns, and don't plan to ever kill anyone with them.

I don't even think of them as self defense weapons, because I feel relatively safe where I live.

I don't even plan on killing animals with them.

[Yosemite]

Dude...

Dude...

Killing is the purpose of guns. If you buy a gun, it's because you want to kill someone with it (for whatever reason).

The difference between cars and guns here is that cars have other purposes. Transportation being a prime example.

You can't very much get into your gun and drive to work, can you?

guns existed way before the time you were even born

are you wishing to ban guns?

i don't think you can ban guns in america, enjoy your right to buy guns since it's creation

here in france it's easier to ban guns, costs so much already and is so hard to get, and you can't carry a concealed weapon on you

so rather than going through all the to get a weapon in france, the people who wish to kill use knives and other blunt weapons

[Indiana_Jones]

Dude...

Dude...

Killing is the purpose of guns. If you buy a gun, it's because you want to kill someone with it (for whatever reason).

The difference between cars and guns here is that cars have other purposes. Transportation being a prime example.

You can't very much get into your gun and drive to work, can you?

Well I own 7 rifles and am yet to kill someone.

Am I doing it wrong?

Must be aye, I guess owning a firearm for target shooting, hutning and historical interest isn't good enough

[Mr. Pink]

It may be common, but not everyone buys a gun with the intent of killing someone. And your sentence isn't even true, either. There are instances[IMG]chrome://easygestures/skin/xLink.png[/IMG]of premeditated vehicular homicide.

OK, the overwhelming majority don't, if you must be so precise.

A guns purpose is to kill. If you buy a gun, your more likely to kill someone with it.

A cars purpose is for transport, your not very likely to kill someone.

Dude...

Dude...

Killing is purpose of guns. If you buy a gun, it's because you want to kill someone with it (for whatever reason).

The difference between cars and guns here is that cars have other purposes. Transportation being a prime example.

You can't very much get into your gun and drive to work, can you?

Well it looks like I've just copied your post now, but that is pretty much bang on

[GrnEyedDvl]

A guns purpose is to kill. If you buy a gun, your more likely to kill someone with it.

Wrong. There are many purposes for guns. I have some that I never fire, collectors items. I also have several that are only used for recreation. For example I would never fire the shotgun I use for shooting trap at someone. It just wouldnt do the job. Thats what the 45 is for.

A cars purpose is for transport, your not very likely to kill someone.

http://www.unitedjustice.com/death-statistics.html
Year 2000 traffic fatalities - 41,495
Year 2000 murders, all - 15,517


You are 3 times more likely to kill someone with your car than with your gun. In fact its worse than that.

According to the US Bureau of Transit Statistics for 2006 there are 250,851,833 registered passenger vehicles in the US

The numbers I have seen on guns go anywhere from 200 million to 400 million, or nearly double the number of cars, with 1/3 the number of people killed by them.

What you are judging things by is intent. You are assuming that most car related deaths are not intentional, and most gun related deaths are intentional. This is a faulty assumption.

I would agree that most car accidents where someone loses their life is not an conscious intentional act. However even if you throw most of them out and only count the ones by drunk drivers you get more than the total number of murders in the US:

http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-dr...tatistics.html

16,005 people were killed in the United States in alcohol-related* motor vehicle traffic crashes (BAC of .01 or higher).

But I dont see people trying to bring back prohibition.




For accidents involving weapons, see this stat:
http://www.atf.gov/

Fatal gun accidents involving children (aged 0-14) also fell significantly, from 495 in 1975, to under 250 in 1995. More children die from accidental drownings or burns than from gun accidents. (Gun supply statistics are from the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, gun accident rates from the National Safety Council).

Or these:
http://gunsafe.org/position%20statem...nd%20crime.htm


The simple fact is that owning a car is far more dangerous than owning a firearm, no matter what your intent is.

[Ciabhán]

A cars purpose is for transport, your not very likely to kill someone.

Considering many more people die a year from vehicular related injuries than do from firearms related injuries you are actually MORE likely to kill someone.

Firearms can be used for hunting, both for food and sport. That does not involve killing people. They are often collected. No killing involved. They can be used as a deterrent thus negating the need for injury or death during during a crime. Most sane people won't buck a fella with a loaded gun pointed at them. The only people who purchase(usually illegally)a firearm with the intent to kill someone else are criminals. Criminals who wouldn't obey any law banning them anyway. Those law abiding citizens who purchase firearms for self-defense and home defense reasons do so with the purpose of SAVING their own or their families lives not with the purpose of taking someone elses. You never(except in war)fire at someone with the intent to kill, you fire at them with the intent to stop the threat. .


@Barnaby- You will find that often those who speak loudest about killing any and all intruders are one of two types....Meatheads who spout a bravado they will never feel if actually confronted(in fact people are so scared that they need to build themselves up for a confrontation that will likely never happen), or outright/borderline criminals themselves. In my somewhat limited spare time I teach both armed and unarmed self-defense and going from experience the whole 'they who speak loudest do least' line can be applied.

[Heathen Hammer]

People don't get into their cars with the intent of killing someone.

In same way people buy guns to protect themselves or hunt. Not to kill someone.

[Mr. Pink]

In same way people buy guns to protect themselves or hunt. Not to kill someone.

If your protecting yourself then there's a big chance of using the gun and killing someone. If someone burgling your house and your standing there with a gun and he goes at you, you'd fire it. If your hunting your still killing aren't you? It may not be a person, though it enhances your firing skills which in turn may be used on someone.

Who is ignoring them?

Actually Danny most self/home defense instructors recommmend a pump shotgun for home defense. Reason being you will likely never have to fire it. The noise the action makes is unmistakable and usually enough to chase people off.

All depends on the person that has the gun I suppose mate and whether or not they follow the recommended advice.

[Ciabhán]

If your protecting yourself then there's a big chance of using the gun and killing someone. If someone burgling your house and your standing there with a gun and he goes at you, you'd fire it. If your hunting your still killing aren't you? It may not be a person, though it enhances your firing skills which in turn may be used on someone.

So you would rather not shoot someone who decided to break into your house and do you or your family harm? You might be taking the 'oh noes guns kill people' argument a bit too far if you start thinking dying just so you don't have to shoot an attacker is okay.

If someone was attacking me, no matter what the circumstances, I would use whatever tool was available to stop the threat. Firearms being a tool that allow me to stop the threat from a distance thus lessening the chance that I get incapacitated or killed in the process. If the attacker dies as a result of my defense it is the attackers fault for instigating the attack not mine for defending myself. I will and I do recommend retreating if you can, but in my own home, with my wife and 2 year old I won't be retreating as I cannot guarantee the safety of the rest of my family by doing so. My family comes first, then myself, the attacker is rather low on my list. I am a paramedic and in the case that I did stop an attack, after confirming that all threats have been stopped, I would do everything possible to keep the injured attacker alive. However I would not be personally distraught if the attacker died, maybe a slight bit professionally, but then again I was a soldier before I was medic.