odd penalties to some enlightenment techs

[django333]

Most enlightenment techs give - happiness penalties to lower class due to clamor for reform. Some of these however don't make much sense to me. Two off the top of my head are "Rights of Man" and "Citizenship". Both give penalties to happiness for the lower classes. Those two techs seem to be aimed at making the lower classes happier. "Rights of Man" gives each man basic rights and freedoms. Something the upper classes most likely already enjoyed due to their social status. "Citizenship" builds on these priciples. So it would seem to me that these techs should give bonuses to lower class happiness and penalties to upper class happiness because the upper classes believe their status should give them more rights than the "common man". This would also make it harder to keep the upper classes happy which is far too easy compared to lower classes in my opinion. Does anyone know if it is possible yet to mod these bonuses and penalties?

[l33tl4m3r]

I have not done so but it is possible to modify those bonuses.

[Lazy Knight]

there is the difference between the "real situation" of your virtual populace and the ideas planted in their heads.

For example, when you research the concept of rights of men, your populace understands that everybody should have certain rights, making them even more angry at not having them.

[django333]

there is the difference between the "real situation" of your virtual populace and the ideas planted in their heads.

For example, when you research the concept of rights of men, your populace understands that everybody should have certain rights, making them even more angry at not having them.

But by researching the tech aren't you giving them those rights? I guess what your saying is essentially you give them an inch and they take a mile. As I said though, it would be nice to balance the happiness of the upper and lower classes more. I don't think I have ever had a negative happiness rating in any region for upper class unless I just took the region. And even then the upper classes settle down much faster than the lower classes.

[Darthey]

The penalties are called 'clamour for reform', and that should give you a good idea of the effect they are supposed to have in the game.

[django333]

The penalties are called 'clamour for reform', and that should give you a good idea of the effect they are supposed to have in the game.

Giving people basic rights and citizenship IS reform.

[Careless]

Giving people basic rights and citizenship IS reform.

They're not the reform, they're the idea behind the reform that may or may not have happened. Should the reform take place, then they won't be unhappy.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

there is the difference between the "real situation" of your virtual populace and the ideas planted in their heads.

For example, when you research the concept of rights of men, your populace understands that everybody should have certain rights, making them even more angry at not having them.

Yea but still I think that the penalities should vary depending on your government. Like "Rights of Man" have a nice sized penatly in Absolute Monarchy, a small one in a Constitutional Monarchy, and instead of a penalty at all, a bonus to happiness as a Republic.

I mean, if I'm a republic, how much more free can you get? Doesn't make any sense.

[nilats]

Yea but still I think that the penalities should vary depending on your government. Like "Rights of Man" have a nice sized penatly in Absolute Monarchy, a small one in a Constitutional Monarchy, and instead of a penalty at all, a bonus to happiness as a Republic.

I mean, if I'm a republic, how much more free can you get? Doesn't make any sense.

you can be free in a republic but still dislike the government hence lower class revolution in a republic = government change

[alpaca]

Yea but still I think that the penalities should vary depending on your government. Like "Rights of Man" have a nice sized penatly in Absolute Monarchy, a small one in a Constitutional Monarchy, and instead of a penalty at all, a bonus to happiness as a Republic.

I mean, if I'm a republic, how much more free can you get? Doesn't make any sense.

Republic doesn't necessarily mean that all men (and women, and children, and small fluffy animal) are free. For an example see slavery in the United States and the lack of emancipation for women/minorities/small fluffy animals in most countries.

As for the techs: As has been said, they increase the clamour for reform. It's quite an interesting design I think - absolute monarchy is stronger in the early game but becomes hard to maintain later on.

[Rotaugen2009]

I simply tear down all the schools and burn all the books. Gotta stop all that liberal freedom ideal stuff from spreading around!

[l33tl4m3r]

I simply tear down all the schools and burn all the books. Gotta stop all that liberal freedom ideal stuff from spreading around!

That is my exact policy when the pleebs get out of hand.

The government sanctioned censorship is for your own good!

[borya1978]

I simply tear down all the schools and burn all the books. Gotta stop all that liberal freedom ideal stuff from spreading around!

LMAO! you killed me with that one

[Tiberius Tosi]

Yea but still I think that the penalities should vary depending on your government. Like "Rights of Man" have a nice sized penatly in Absolute Monarchy, a small one in a Constitutional Monarchy, and instead of a penalty at all, a bonus to happiness as a Republic.

I mean, if I'm a republic, how much more free can you get? Doesn't make any sense.

I agree, but if they were to implement that they would need to make military bonus' for an absolute monarchy or something of that sort, otherwise there is absolutely no advantage to being a monarchy. Constitutional monarchy should always remain pretty much in the middle, but I believe Republic should be much more happiness based with more expensive military units and absolute monarchy should always have quite a bit of clamour for reform with cheaper (but not too much cheaper) military units and upkeep due to how its system of government works.

[War&Politics]

The penalties try to make it harder and harder for you stay an absolute monarchy and eventually forces you into the direction having a revolution and a republic.

[Mr. Os]

The penalties try to make it harder and harder for you stay an absolute monarchy and eventually forces you into the direction having a revolution and a republic.

Well thats weird, my rebellion changed my nation into an Absolute Monarchy. I essentially redid the rebbellion on the side of the Government because the rebels just fuvked up my economy and Parlaiment.

I had to tear down serveral schools (I had researched all technology ingame, but no schievement pop, damn it,) because several leading cities had rebelions i.e Braddenburg, and people were just getting very pissed off.

[General_Meevious]

Indeed, that's the idea. Enlightenment techs aren't actually implemented when they are researched. =P

[Plank of Wood]

When Karl Marx came up with communism in Britian they didn't suddenly force everyone to work for the state and make everyone wait in line for their food.

Enlightenment technologies are social theorys. They probably arn't mostly in use until you rebel and force the government to change.

[borschwanger]

When Karl Marx came up with communism in Britian they didn't suddenly force everyone to work for the state and make everyone wait in line for their food.

Enlightenment technologies are social theorys. They probably arn't mostly in use until you rebel and force the government to change.

if they are 'theory' then why do things like joint stock companies immediately have an effect on the workings of your economy?

[RepublicOfClones]

The Separation of Powers tech gives +1 happy to the middle classes in a con monarchy and (i think) republic. So that is another tech that sort of cancels itself out in happy/unhappiness(if you a con monarchy).