OLD - Ottoman Realism

[Cheshire Cat]

i think that this mod has more unique ottoman units. did remo only retexture or did he add more units?
i can't wait until this mod will be released!

Remo did a Retexture no new units..

[airepal]

a quick bump in anticipation of the new version

[jo the greek]

Some ideas about the mode

i think the mode should have two directions in terms of military units the one will
tend to keep the same and the other to modernize.

I would like to see azabs more like this style:
Increased numbers
poor morale
bad accuracy
bad melee
maybe a bit biger range than europeans.
medium stamina
low cost and upkeep

Bashibazuks
a bit the same but better melee

Because i think azabs were consisted of different nationalities
it would be cool to see some of the most known in the era with some different statistics Example albanians fellahins and etc .

About Janissaries
I think they must be the same as the game or with a bit worse statistics
and certainly good reload time.
But they must have a minus in public order and have big upkeep.

All the infantry should lack organised fire like europeans did and bad melee against cavalry. Theirs powers must be numbers and low cost.

Cavalry
Sipahis although i like them a lot i think they should bigger in number lose armor and medium morale medium damage medium stamina low charge
and maybe armed with pistol
It would be cool to see diferent types of sipahi

Dehlis about the same as in game but acting also as dragoons with a bit biger range.

Artillery
low reload time nothing more to say
Navy
low reload time and speed
in contrast they can have access to very good small ships of barbary pirates

Nizams
they should be not present together with Janissaries their appearance should cause a major rebel
In general line they should be a bit the same with rest european
with a little bad accurancy and lower cost .
And the previous types to of infantry to exist in the logic of Rediff
Also i think the Sipahis may have similar luck with Janissairies but not sure

So what do you think do we think the same ???

[major_payne]

hey nizam

when will the 1.1 mod be released??? i can't wait to play!

[Little Legionaire]

Yes! Where is the mod Nizam! Can't wait. I've stopped to play my Ottoman campaign until your mod is out.

[AmiR TimuR]

[move]AKINCILAR[/move]

WE ARE COMING LIKE RAIDERS(AKINCILAR)...

Just patience guys. we are waiting for new patch. if it will be released on 26th may, we will uptade our stuff with it and release the mod, if it won't be released on 26th, we will release the mod without this uptade and hope not to have mismatches...

[nurhak]

[move]AKINCILAR[/move]

WE ARE COMING LIKE RAIDERS(AKINCILAR)...

Just patience guys. we are waiting for new patch. if it will be released on 26th may, we will uptade our stuff with it and release the mod, if it won't be released on 26th, we will release the mod without this uptade and hope not to have mismatches...

they look a bit too dark too me ,1.0 had whiter unit skins but this one not , but maybe its the shadow

[jo the greek]

[Little Legionaire]

[move]AKINCILAR[/move]

WE ARE COMING LIKE RAIDERS(AKINCILAR)...

Just patience guys. we are waiting for new patch. if it will be released on 26th may, we will uptade our stuff with it and release the mod, if it won't be released on 26th, we will release the mod without this uptade and hope not to have mismatches...

What's this about patch Timur. Any new units or something special. We know that some certain units done by CA like Sekban Janissaries and you reactivated them by modding. I'm really wondering that what kind of patch is this.

Hmm /patience Anakin mod enabled

[nurhak]

yeah there are lots of units in the game that are activated by them but no units made by them i think

[AmiR TimuR]

What's this about patch Timur. Any new units or something special. We know that some certain units done by CA like Sekban Janissaries and you reactivated them by modding. I'm really wondering that what kind of patch is this.

Hmm /patience Anakin mod enabled

We are waiting for the official patch by CA. If we release mod today, and if official patch will be released today, big probability our mod won't be playable. Because patch will be quite big and includes lots of things. For this reason, we decided to wait 24-48 hours more to release the mod.

[jo the greek]

I. The Turkish Army

The Turkish army, at the beginning of the present war, was in a higher state of efficiency than it had ever reached before. The various attempts at reorganization and reform made since the accession of Mahmud, since the massacre of the janissaries, and especially since the peace of Adrianople, had been consolidated and systematized. The first and greatest obstacle — the independent position of the pashas in command of distant provinces — had been removed, to a great extent, and, upon the whole, the pashas were reduced to a discipline somewhat approaching that of European district commanders. But their ignorance, insolence, and rapacity remained in as full vigor as in the best days of Asiatic satrap rule; and if, for the last twenty years, we had heard little of revolts of pashas, we have heard enough of provinces in revolt against their greedy governors, who, originally the lowest domestic slaves and “men of all work,” profited by their new position to heap up fortunes by exactions, bribes, and wholesale embezzlement of the public money. That, under such a state of things, the organization of the army must, to a great extent, exist on paper only, is evident.
The Turkish army consists of the regular active army (Nizam), the reserve (Redif), the irregular troops, and the auxiliary corps of the vassal states.
The Nizam is composed of six corps (Orders), each of which is raised in the district it occupies, similar to the army-corps in Prussia, each of which is located in the province from which it recruits itself. Altogether the organization of the Turkish Nizam and Redif is, as we shall see, copied from the Prussian model. The six Orders have their head-quarters in Constantinople, Shumla, Toli-Monatzir, Erzeroum, Bagdad, and Aleppo. Each of them should be commanded by a Mushir (field marshal), and should consist of two divisions or six brigades, formed by six regiments of infantry, four of cavalry, and one of artillery.
The infantry and cavalry are organized upon the French, the artillery upon the Prussian system.
A regiment of infantry is composed of four battalions of eight companies each, and should count, when on its full complement, 3,250 men, inclusive of officers and staff, or 800 men per battalion; the general strength, however, before the war, seldom exceeded 700 men, and in Asia was almost always much less.
A cavalry regiment consists of four squadrons of lancers, and two squadrons of chasseurs, each squadron to contain 151 men; in general, the effective strength was here even more below the standard than in the infantry.
Each artillery regiment consists of six horse and nine foot batteries, of four guns each, thus representing a total of sixty guns.
Every order was thus expected to number 19,500 infantry, 3,700 cavalry, and sixty guns. In reality, however, from 20,000 to 21,000 men in all is the utmost, ever reached.
Beside the six Orders, there are four artillery regiments (one of reserve, and three of garrison artillery), two regiments of sappers and miners, and three special detachments of infantry sent to Candia, to Tunis, and Tripoli, of a total strength of 16,000 men.
The total strength of the Nizam, or regular standing army, before the war, should, therefore, have been as follows:
36reg. of infant. averaging2,500-90,000 24 “ cavalry660-670-16,000 7 “ field artillery9,000 3 “ garrison3,400 2 “ sappers and miners1,600 Detached corps16,000
136,000 The soldiers, after having served five years in the Nizam, are dismissed to their homes, and form, for the seven following years, part of the Redif or reserve. This reserve counts as many orders, divisions, brigades, regiments, etc., as the standing army; in fact, it is to the Nizam what in Prussia the first levy of the landwehr is to the line, with the sole exception, that in Prussia, in larger masses than brigades, line and landwehr are always mixed, while in the Turkish organization they are to be kept separate. The officers and non-commissioned officers of the Redif are constantly assembled at the depots, and once a year the Redif are called in for exercise, during which time, they receive the same pay and rations as the line. But such an organization, presupposing a well-regulated civil administration, and a civilized state of society, far from having been reached in Turkey, must in a great degree exist on paper only, and if we count, therefore, the Redif as equal in numbers to the Nizam, we shall certainly put it down at its highest possible figure.
The auxiliary contingents consist of troops from:
1. The Danubian Principalities 6,000 men. 2. Servia 20,000 " 3. Bosnia and Herzegovina 30,000 " 4. Upper Albania 10,000 " 5. Egypt 40,000 " 6. Tunis and Tripoli 10,000 " Total, about116,000 " To these troops must he added the volunteer Bashi Bazouks, whom Asia Minor, Kurdistan, and Syria can furnish in great numbers. They are the last remnant of that host of irregular troops which, in past centuries, flooded Hungary, and twice appeared before Vienna. Mostly cavalry, their inferiority, even to the worst-equipped European horseman, has been proved by two centuries of all but constant defeats. Their self-confidence has disappeared, and now they serve no other purpose than to swarm around the army, eating up and wasting the resources upon which the regular body should subsist. Their love of plunder and unreliable temper make them even unfit for that active outpost duty which the Russians expect from their Cossacks; for the Bashi Bazouks, when most wanted, are least to be found. In this present war, it has, therefore, been found desirable to keep their numbers down, and we do not think that there were ever collected more than 50,000 of them.
Thus the numerical strength of the Turkish army, at the beginning of the war, may he estimated as follows:
Nizam 136,000 Redif 136,000 Auxiliaries, regulars from Egypt and Tunis 50,000 Do. irregulars, Bosnia and Albania 40,000 Bashi Bazouks 50,000 Total 412,000 But again, from this sum total several deductions have to be made. That the Orders stationed in Europe were in pretty good condition, and as near their full complement as can be expected in Turkey, seems pretty certain; but in Asia, in the distant provinces where the Mussulman population predominates, the men might be ready, while neither arms, nor equipments, nor stores of ammunition were forthcoming. The Danubian army was formed from the three European Orders principally. They were the nucleus around which the European Redifs, the Order of Syria, or, at least, a good part of it, and a number of Arnauts, Bosnians, and Bashi Bazouks were collected. Yet the excessive caution of Omer Pasha — his constant unwillingness up to the present time to expose his troops in the field — is the best proof that he has but a limited confidence in the capabilities of this, the only good regular army Turkey ever possessed. But in Asia, where the old Turkish system of embezzlement and laziness was still in full blossom, the two Orders of the Nizam, the whole of the Redifs, and the mass of the irregulars were unable to withstand a Russian army vastly inferior in numbers; in every battle they were beaten, and, at the end of the campaign of 1854, the Asiatic army of Turkey had all but ceased to exist. There, then, it is clear that not only the details of the organization, but a great proportion of the troops themselves had no real existence. The want of arms, equipments, ammunition, and provisions, was the constant complaint of the foreign officers and newspaper correspondents in Kars and Erzeroum; and they plainly stated that nothing but the indolence, incapacity, and rapacity of the Pashas was the cause of it. The money was duly sent to them, but they always appropriated it to their own uses.
The equipment of the Turkish regular soldier is on the whole imitated from the western armies, the only distinction being the red fez or skull-cap, which is about the worst head-gear possible in that climate, where, during the heats of summer, it causes frequent sun-strokes. The quality of the articles furnished is bad, and the clothing has to stand longer than can be expected, in consequence of the officers generally pocketing the money destined for its renewal. The arms are of an inferior description, both for the infantry and cavalry; the artillery alone has very good field-guns, cast at Constantinople, under the direction of European officers and civil engineers.
The Turk, in himself, is not a bad soldier. He is naturally brave, extremely hardy and patient, and, under certain circumstances, docile. European officers who have once gained his confidence, can rely upon him, as witness Grach and Butler at Silistria, and Iskender Bey (Ilinski) in Wallachia. But these are exceptions. On the whole, the innate hatred of the Turk for the “Giaour” is so indelible, and his habits and ideas are so different from those of a European, that, so long as his remains the ruling race in the country, he will not submit to men whom he inwardly despises as incommensurably his inferiors. This repugnance is extended to the very organization of the army, ever since it has been put upon a European footing. The common Turk hates Giaour institutions as much as the Giaours themselves. Then the strict discipline, the regulated activity, the constant attention required in a modern army are things utterly hateful to the lazy, contemplative, fatalist Turk. The officers, even, will rather allow the army to be beaten than exert themselves, and use their own senses. This is one of the worst features in the Turkish army, and alone would suffice to make it unfit for any offensive campaign.
The private and non-commissioned soldiers are recruited by volunteers and the ballot; the lower grades of officers are sometimes filled by men promoted from the ranks, but generally by the camp-followers and domestic servants, the tshibukdjis and kafeidjis of the higher officers. The military schools at Constantinople not very good in themselves, cannot furnish young men enough for the vacancies. As to the higher ranks, a system of favoritism exists, of which the western nations have no idea. Most of the generals were originally Circassian slaves, the mignons of some great man in the days of their youth. Utter ignorance, incapacity, and self-sufficiency rule supreme, and court-intrigue is the principal means of advancement. Even the few European generals (renegades) in the service would not have been accepted, if they had not been absolutely necessary to prevent the whole machine from falling to pieces. As it is, they have been indiscriminately taken, both from men of real merit and mere adventurers.
At present, after three campaigns, no Turkish army can be said to exist, except the 80,000 men of Omer Pasha’s original army, part of which is stationed on the Danube, and part in the Crimea. The Asiatic army consists of about 25,000 rabble, unfit for the field, and demoralized by defeat. The remainder of the 400,000 men are gone nobody knows where; killed in the field or by sickness, invalided, disbanded, or turned into robbers. Very likely this will be the last Turkish army of all; for, to recover from the shock received by her alliance with England and France, is. more than can be expected from Turkey.
The time is gone by when the contests of Oltenitza and Citate created an exaggerated enthusiasm for Turkish bravery. The stubborn inactivity of Omer Pasha sufficed to raise doubts as to their other military qualifications, which not even the brilliant defense of Silistria could entirely dispel; the defeats in Asia, the flight of Balaklava, the strictly defensive attitude of the Turks in Eupatoria, and their complete inactivity in the camp before Sebastopol have reduced the general estimate of their military capabilities to a proper level. The Turkish army was so constituted that a judgment on its- general value was hitherto completely impossible. There were, no doubt, some very brave and well-managed regiments, capable of any duty, but they were greatly in the minority. The great mass of the infantry lacked cohesion, and was, therefore, unfit for field-duty, though good behind intrenchments. The regular cavalry was decidedly inferior to that of any European power. The artillery was by far the best portion of the service, and the field-regiments in a high state of efficiency; the men were as if born for their work, though no doubt the officers left much to desire. The Redifs appear to have suffered from a general want of organization, though the men no doubt were willing to do their best. Of the irregulars, the Arnauts and Bosnians were capital guerrillas, but nothing more, best used in defending fortifications; while the Bashi Bazouks were all but worthless, and even worse than that. The Egyptian contingent appears to have been about on a level with the Turkish Nizam, the Tunisian nearly unfit for anything. With such a motley army, so badly officered and subject to such maladministration, no wonder it is all but ruined in three campaigns.

[EmperorBatman999]

Can you make Jannisaries look more...European? I read somewhere they were kidnapped as Christian children then taken to train in the Ottoman army.

[AmiR TimuR]

Can you make Jannisaries look more...European? I read somewhere they were kidnapped as Christian children then taken to train in the Ottoman army.

what means European? this funny clone hats that everyone has?

they are unique enough

[Takeda Shingen]

Hey guys!

Still really nice units, but the name of the thread is hilarious!!!

When is soon? 2057???

[nurhak]

Can you make Jannisaries look more...European? I read somewhere they were kidnapped as Christian children then taken to train in the Ottoman army.

they weren't whiter than Turks, you think Turks look brown like the units that CA made? no ,the main reason the make this mod was to make the skins lighter looking

[AbbaZ]

Haydi Arslanlar!! Ya Allah!!!

[Nikron]

hey guys, are there albanian units? like yanitsares for example? or albanian nizams? sorry im new here and i had no time to explore this mod. if u want u can see the pictures of albanian bashibazooks or others in my profile. take a look. cheers. great mod. im interested cuz my great-grandfather used to be for many years an ottoman yanitsare. my grandfather says he fought even in Yemen. is that true? that turks fought in Yemen?

[airepal]

Maybe the Ottoman artillery can be improved a little bit. Afterall many reports concerning the Ottomans military in this era stated that the artillery is the best service in the army.

[Nikron]

look at this pic. its an albanian arnaut as a turkish soldier....