Liberal Islam vs. Extremist Islam in Britain: The first blows

[Каие]

A progressive Muslim imam from Oxford has won a libel action against a Muslim newspaper in what he claims is a "watershed moment" in the battle between liberal and extremist Muslims in Britain.

Dr Taj Hargey, who provoked controversy last year when he invited the first ever woman to lead and preach at Friday prayers in Britain, has been awarded a "substantial" five-figure sum in libel damages against the Muslim Weekly, which takes a conservative line on community issues.

In its latest edition, the newspaper urges the Government not to play a "divide and rule" policy over the Muslim Council of Britain. The Government has threatened to cut ties with the council after it refused to sack its deputy leader, Daud Abdullah, who signed a pro-Hamas declaration at a conference on Gaza in Istanbul.

Dr Hargey, who is originally from South Africa, describes himself as a "thorn in the side of the Muslim hierarchy" as a result of his liberal theology and his "integrationist, non-sexist views."

The Oxford institute he founded, the Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford (Meco), preaches that women should not wear the niqab or face-covering and that men should not wear beards. He sanctions marriages of Muslim women to men of other faiths and promotes mixed congregations in mosques, where men and women are usually strictly segregated and women are sometimes not allowed at all.

He sued the Muslim Weekly when it claimed Muslim clerics had pulled out of a conference he organised in May 2006 because he was not a Muslim but a member of the Qadiani or Ahmadiyya sect, considered heretical by mainstream Muslims because of disagreements about the "finality" of the Prophet Mohammed. The paper also claimed he had been dismissed from a previous post at Cape Town university because of his theological affilations.
Dr Hargey argued successfully that he is not a heretic but a mainstream Sunni Muslim, and that he was not sacked from his university post but left South Africa during the apartheid era to pursue a successful academic career abroad.

He said today: "The historic case highlights the right to freedom and dissent within the British Muslim community. Iconoclastic thinkers, liberals and non-conformists who dare to challenge religious authority in Islam by striving to present a rational interpretation of their faith are invariably branded as apostates and heretics."

He said he had "struck a blow for freedom of speech" within the British Muslim community. The Muslim Weekly, which today publishes an apology on its front page, declined to comment.

This may seem insignificant and pointless, but from my experience in British Islam there is always a ''party line'', a party line which dictates all Islamic thinking in Britain in one way, shape or form. The Islamic elite in Britain seem to rule by consensus whereby they agree on certain concepts and that's it. Anything else is nonsense and heavily bludgeoned. This is why reform and enlightenment to achieve what I consider, and what generally is, real Islam has been slow and full of failure. Not the only factor but a significant one. Any Sunni Muslim, such as myself, who wants to speak out against the 'party line' is beaten down and labelled a heretic, therefore making others reluctant to listen.

This story shows a growing weakness of that ''party line'' and as the Imam in question says a victory for freedom of speech within the Muslim community. This is merely the beginning of a direct challenge to the current muslim order by other Muslims which will spark mass debate amongst the Muslim community itself allowing the Muslim community in Britain to de fragment and no longer seen as one block of thought and belief but as it should be, individuals with individual views, free to express them.

[roy34543]

I think your making a bit too much of this Rome , Individual cases against a publication by a person dont always indicate trends, Lawsutis can be very arbitrary these days.

[Каие]

As I said Roy, it's not the only event. The Muslim Council of Britain is all but decommissioned. It once, to my dismay, served as the sole authority on Islamic matters in Britain and the Muslim community's sole representative but slowly, slowly, it has fallen from grace, ending that monopoly.

[Adar]

I think it's great. I think western society would gain alot from only cooperating with the constructive branches of Islam.

In Sweden we already do this kind of work with christian organisations but I am still waiting for the same kind of behavior toward muslim organisations.

[motiv-8]

Funny that if it were a report about a Muslim doing something wrong, the Islamaphobes would be coming out of the woodwork and having a jolly circle-jerk. Point out a favorable example, and oh no, you're making too much of things..

[Thema'zandaar]

The Islamic elite in Britain seem to rule by consensus whereby they agree on certain concepts and that's it. Anything else is nonsense and heavily bludgeoned.

Isn't that known as democracy?

This is why reform and enlightenment to what I consider, and what generally is, real Islam has been slow and full of failure.

Am I to understand then that you do not believe real Islam is enlightened?

Any Sunni Muslim, such as myself, who wants to speak out against the 'party line' is beaten down and labelled a heretic, therefore making others reluctant to listen.

I agree that character-assassinating dissenting voices is a dirty tactic.

This is merely the beginning of a direct challenge to the current muslim order by other Muslims which will spark mass debate amongst the Muslim community itself allowing the Muslim community in Britain to de fragment and no longer seen as one block of thought and belief but as it should be, individuals with individual views, free to express them.

So....with the Sunni, Shia, Bahai, Bori, Ahmadiyyah, Qadiani, Ismaili, Nizari, etc etc, Muslims are still seen as one large monolithic bloc? Wow, talk about oversimplification.

I think your making a bit too much of this Rome , Individual cases against a publication by a person dont always indicate trends, Lawsutis can be very arbitrary these days.

You are so often so incredibly wrong that I don't know what to do with you.
Judgements in lawsuits very often establish precedents as to how the judiciary and adjudicates view matters. Similar past cases are often referenced in future ones by lawyers in an attempt to establish credibility of their claims. Judges examine past judgements in any previous suits that they feel are connected in order to reach their own judgements. The courts are not a simple matter of enforcing the law, at least not in the modern western society. They are expected to enforce the spirit of the law and uphold rights. Each case is significant in that it either establishes a precedence, reinforces a trend or breaks it. So yes, this case is certainly more significant than you're making it out to be.

[Каие]

Isn't that known as democracy?

Haha touche.

Am I to understand then that you do not believe real Islam is enlightened?

No what I was trying to say was...
''This is why reform and enlightenment to achieve what I consider, and what generally is, real Islam has been slow and full of failure.''

I agree that character-assassinating dissenting voices is a dirty tactic.

Yet a most effective one. Credibility is the single most important thing to any leader or public figure.

So....with the Sunni, Shia, Bahai, Bori, Ahmadiyyah, Qadiani, Ismaili, Nizari, etc etc, Muslims are still seen as one large monolithic bloc? Wow, talk about oversimplification.

Tell me about it.

[AdmiralSloop]

Isn't that known as democracy?

Dude, everyone knows democracy sucks.

Striving to present a rational interpretation of their faith?

*Bleep* Oxymoron.

OH YOUR TERRIBLE!

Am I right in thinking the liberal Muslim community is much smaller in Britain then it is Iran?

[Каие]

Am I right in thinking the liberal Muslim community is much smaller in Britain then it is Iran?

The UK Liberal Muslim community far outstrips the Iranian equivalent.

I think this thread was made to expound upon the liberalism of islam in an effort to paint the religion and its sects as relevant to the modern world.


Still unconvinced of it, and thus fail.

No that wasn't the purpose of the thread at all. The actual purpose of the thread was to show that now the more Liberal Muslims are taking on and winning the more accepted orthodox and conservative mainstream Islam and it's domination of all areas within the United Kingdom Islamic community.

[AdmiralSloop]

The UK Liberal Muslim community far outstrips the Iranian equivalent.

Really? I always thought Ahmadimajhad(?) was going to come up against some stiff opposistion in the elections because of a growing liberal movement (well, less conservative) in Iran?

[Barry Goldwater]

If the struggle between Islamic moderates & extremists is a boxing match and this was the first punch, I pray to Jesus Christ in Heaven that the moderates will end up bashing the radicals' heads into an unrecognizable bloody mess

[Zephyrus]

The UK Liberal Muslim community far outstrips the Iranian equivalent.



No that wasn't the purpose of the thread at all. The actual purpose of the thread was to show that now the more Liberal Muslims are taking on and winning the more accepted orthodox and conservative mainstream Islam and it's domination of all areas within the United Kingdom Islamic community.

Ok, protect and cherish this growing revolt against sharia law and unrest in the UK and let me know how it goes in the next 3 tumultous years from now.

I'll be anxiously waiting!

[Fiyenyaa]

Ok, protect and cherish this growing revolt against sharia law and unrest in the UK and let me know how it goes in the next 3 tumultous years from now.

I'll be anxiously waiting!

Sharia Law in the UK? If there is ever a sniff of that possibly happening I'll be in open revolt against those who would want it - as would any sane person, including most British Muslims, I'd bet.

As for the topic at hand, I really hope this shows a period of enlightenment whereby muslims can start to ignore the horrible parts of their religion much like christians did a few hundred years ago. It's promising, but I won't hold my breath.

[Kopis]

The UK Liberal Muslim community far outstrips the Iranian equivalent.



No that wasn't the purpose of the thread at all. The actual purpose of the thread was to show that now the more Liberal Muslims are taking on and winning the more accepted orthodox and conservative mainstream Islam and it's domination of all areas within the United Kingdom Islamic community.

I still think that the Iranian Liberal muslim community is bigger, that might also be the case with Pakistan.

I guess most Iranian youngsters speak an English that puts that of British muslims to shame .

Oh Shadow that's what pisses people of about muslims, "we just wouldn't understand" but all those muslim goatherders do or what with their phd in religious science and Muslim Theology do? Obviously your religion has a major communication problem. If that is true why doesnt it keep to itself but molests us with expansion. Since "we cannot understand" it is totally useless to convert I suppose. One of the first things about Islam than that would be nice.

It is just a very nice way to stop critizism of the sources. How convenient!

Come on, Islam does not even know individual prayer. It is certainly not the religion for the distinguished intellectuel gentlemen.

[Khannis]

Striving to present a rational interpretation of their faith?

*Bleep* Oxymoron.

[Zephyrus]

Striving to present a rational interpretation of their faith?

*Bleep* Oxymoron.

I think this thread was made to expound upon the liberalism of islam in an effort to paint the religion and its sects as relevant to the modern world.


Still unconvinced of it, and thus fail.

[Ummon]

What funny example of moderation that would be.

Personally, thread wise, I think that if winning a lawsuit is a success, we are in trouble.

[Barry Goldwater]

What funny example of moderation that would be.

Thankfully, there is no such boxing match in the real world - what I meant was that I want the radicals to be marginalized to such an extent that nobody gives a about their opinions anymore (though they still remain free to spout whatever they want)

[Каие]

As usual Ummon you miss the point.

[Ummon]

As usual Ummon you miss the point.

You mean that I am never deceived by superficial analyses? Given that Muslims do not hold secular power in the UK (yet?) winning a lawsuit stems... From British Law System?