EB-Twitter updates Discussion

[Morrowgan]

Is the mod dead ?

[QuintusSertorius]

Is the mod dead ?

Yes; because of course if we don't preview things, nothing is happening behind the scenes.

Never mind the pretty huge script I've been writing to handle the eastern migrations, or the four units which are soon to be previewed.

[Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ]

Is the mod dead ?

This mod is one of the most updated mods in M2TW, if not the TW series.

[Hellenikon]

I've got a few question related to the bosporans:
- The city of Olbia, judging by the amount of the hellenistic culture (50), and the province description, shouldn't it start with at least a minor polis?
- Are the bosporitai logades and the pontikoi hoplitai factional units for KB or regional ones? Are the hoplites elite or just like normal hoplites, what are the differences?

[Rad]

If the mod wasn't dead, you'd preview those four units now, Quintus!

[Roma_Victrix]

The mod has died. However, like a phoenix rising from the ashes, or the electrified Frankenstein monster breaking loose from his belt restraints, or the Resurrection of Zombie Jesus looking to eat brains, EBII will come swinging back and returning to true form, if not bigger, better, stronger, with a longer-lasting sex drive thanks to its Viagra prescription.

[QuintusSertorius]

I've got a few question related to the bosporans:
- The city of Olbia, judging by the amount of the hellenistic culture (50), and the province description, shouldn't it start with at least a minor polis?
- Are the bosporitai logades and the pontikoi hoplitai factional units for KB or regional ones? Are the hoplites elite or just like normal hoplites, what are the differences?

Like Byzantion, Olbia had moved away from the polis being the central point of civic life at our start time, that's why it doesn't have one.

Both units are regional; the hoplites are elites, smaller unit with better stats.

[wermez]

4 units are soon to be previewed, and 4 more are almost done. I am sure that 1 or 2 more will be finished soon.

This mod is far far far from being dead, you silly persons.

[Baharr]

Somewhat ridiculously, while I am excited for new units and whatnot, what I am truly beyond hyped for is the disappearing highway fix and the overhauled building income system that has been talked about

[Slaytaninc]

Like Byzantion, Olbia had moved away from the polis being the central point of civic life at our start time, that's why it doesn't have one.

Both units are regional; the hoplites are elites, smaller unit with better stats.

So what exactly replaced it? Were they proto-kingdoms? Meeting points for local tribes?

[QuintusSertorius]

So what exactly replaced it? Were they proto-kingdoms? Meeting points for local tribes?

I'd have to ask Arjos, but from memory domination by the local tribes offering "protection" to the Greek communities became more important.

[Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ]

I'm aware of this being the case with Olbia, although I'm not sure why accepting a Scythian King as a suzerain would change the fact they were a Polis, as for Byzantion, I thought they were independent for the most of the time portrayed by of EB2, from the start to, at least, Caesars time, at times even controlling surrounding towns, both in Thrace and Anatolia.

[Hellenikon]

Like Byzantion, Olbia had moved away from the polis being the central point of civic life at our start time, that's why it doesn't have one.

Both units are regional; the hoplites are elites, smaller unit with better stats.

I see, thank you Quintus. In 2.3 Byzantion has a minor polis, is this a mistake? It seems to contradict what you were explaining.

As i interpret it, it seems like these settlements civic life were no longer based around the polis, but other structures like tribes were more important. I find it very weird how as KH i am unable to say, conquer Olbia, and then "restore" the importance of the polis. A faction like KH cannot create new polis, just upgrade existing ones - even if it's arguably the faction most linked to the polis as a institution of government.

IMO, the polis one building could be used to represent these places that were in decadence versus stronger/local customs, but still had hellenic institutions, while polis two could represent those places were still was predominant and something major. That way, the KH taking over Olbia could represent the greek league renewing the importance of the polis again.

[QuintusSertorius]

I'm aware of this being the case with Olbia, although I'm not sure why accepting a Scythian King as a suzerain would change the fact they were a Polis, as for Byzantion, I thought they were independent for the most of the time portrayed by of EB2, from the start to, at least, Caesars time, at times even controlling surrounding towns, both in Thrace and Anatolia.

There are a few places where that sort of argument has been used, to prevent a proliferation of polis buildings anywhere that was remotely Greek. Ironically, it was querying the placement of them that started my journey onto the team:

Point is all those you've listed, except Syrakousai, were already by some time moving away from being purely Hellenic in governance or were not much larger than trading emporia really...

The idea wherever there are Hellenes there must be a polis is a bit overboard...
Especially because in EBII the settlements are administrative centers for whole regions and the institutions in them have to reflect the whole population...

Your last paragraph has only small enclaves of Hellenes within their regions, which do not warrant a conversion for the whole population and historically were moving in the other direction or had no influence whatsoever on the demographic majority living in the hinterland...

Very similar situation for Chersonesos and Trapezous...

When Greeks don't make up a significant proportion of the population of the whole province, and couldn't be argued to be the leading power either, and the general administrative patterns are moving away from Hellenic styles, there's no reason to start with a polis.

I see, thank you Quintus. In 2.3 Byzantion has a minor polis, is this a mistake? It seems to contradict what you were explaining.

As i interpret it, it seems like these settlements civic life were no longer based around the polis, but other structures like tribes were more important. I find it very weird how as KH i am unable to say, conquer Olbia, and then "restore" the importance of the polis. A faction like KH cannot create new polis, just upgrade existing ones - even if it's arguably the faction most linked to the polis as a institution of government.

IMO, the polis one building could be used to represent these places that were in decadence versus stronger/local customs, but still had hellenic institutions, while polis two could represent those places were still was predominant and something major. That way, the KH taking over Olbia could represent the greek league renewing the importance of the polis again.

I must be mis-remembering Byzantion; it's another place those elite hoplites come from.

KH does have a government that imitates re-instituting a civic centre - the Supervised Hellenic Admin - but it isn't the same as building your own.

[Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ]

When Greeks don't make up a significant proportion of the population of the whole province, and couldn't be argued to be the leading power either, and the general administrative patterns are moving away from Hellenic styles, there's no reason to start with a polis.

That makes the the argument consistent, minor polis would present a minor presence of Greeks in the province, therefore excluding it would be strange if province has such presence, given the fact that the Diadokhoi can establish a minor poleis wherever requirements are met, even if Greeks would realistically only be a small fragment of the population, BUT in the case of the Diadochi they would be a leading power, which wasn't the case with Olbia.

[QuintusSertorius]

That makes the the argument consistent, minor polis would present a minor presence of Greeks in the province, therefore excluding it would be strange if province has such presence, given the fact that the Diadokhoi can establish a minor poleis wherever requirements are met, even if Greeks would realistically only be a small fragment of the population, BUT in the case of the Diadochi they would be a leading power, which wasn't the case with Olbia.

The Diadochi and Epigonoi can only establish a new polis when they ship out colonists - a finite resource - to facilitate the creation of the institution. It's not just an expression of policy, but an expenditure too.

[kingman1337]

Any news from the front?

[QuintusSertorius]

Any news from the front?

There are a host of new units which need screenshotting, so we can preview them.

[NapoleonMaster]

There are a host of new units which need screenshotting, so we can preview them.

My guess is that we're gonna see Dacian, Indian and Central Asian units.

[Genghis Skahn]

My guess is that we're gonna see Dacian, Indian and Central Asian units.

It shouldn't spoil anything to say that that guess is, unfortunately, incorrect.