EB-Twitter updates Discussion

[James the Red]

What does this diminishing of Greek units look like? Do the other Diadochi in Asia also have a diminishing of Greek units too?

[QuintusSertorius]

What does this diminishing of Greek units look like? Do the other Diadochi in Asia also have a diminishing of Greek units too?

Some units reduce in frequency or vanish with the reforms. Same happens to the Seleukids/Ptolemaioi in some regions with specific units like Phalangitai and levy hoplites.

Note it's not a factional thing, it's a regional thing. Any Hellenistic faction with a polis in Afghanistan, for example, is going to find core Greek units being replaced by others over time.

[Akhenaton]

Some units reduce in frequency or vanish with the reforms. Same happens to the Seleukids/Ptolemaioi in some regions with specific units like Phalangitai and levy hoplites.

Note it's not a factional thing, it's a regional thing. Any Hellenistic faction with a polis in Afghanistan, for example, is going to find core Greek units being replaced by others over time.

And what happens if I have a greek citiy in say....Britain? Will my access to greek units be more limited after the reforms? Btw, are there special rules for greek units in western mediterreanean colonies?

[Jervaj]

Does this happen to the polis or to the military colonies?

In theory if your able to keep pulling hellenic colonists and create big colonies the availability of hellenic units should increase and not the opposite. Although I could udnerstand less "greek" units in the polis themselves due to the region.

[QuintusSertorius]

And what happens if I have a greek citiy in say....Britain? Will my access to greek units be more limited after the reforms? Btw, are there special rules for greek units in western mediterreanean colonies?

Does this happen to the polis or to the military colonies?

In theory if your able to keep pulling hellenic colonists and create big colonies the availability of hellenic units should increase and not the opposite. Although I could udnerstand less "greek" units in the polis themselves due to the region.

Both polis and colony are regionalised; they're impacted where Greeks/Makedonians/Hellenised others would want to go. Put a polis in Britain and you'll get very few units (a scraping of Greek traders and their families). Put a colony there and you'll get nothing at all.

Generally a polis will give you at least a token recruitment of Greeks, though it may not increase in size much if you upgrade. Post-reform, some of these pools shrink even more (mostly due to particular unit types becoming less frequent and not being replaced).

Whereas there are places where the colony gives no recruitment (Britain, the steppe away from the Black Sea, Germany, the Baltic, inland Numidia, Ethiopia, etc).

[Akhenaton]

Both polis and colony are regionalised; they're impacted where Greeks/Makedonians/Hellenised others would want to go. Put a polis in Britain and you'll get very few units (a scraping of Greek traders and their families). Put a colony there and you'll get nothing at all.

Hehe, I see. Are desired areas indicitated by a building icon on the city browser? Or do I have to use my common sense ?

GenerallyI remember from EBI taking my entire KH faction to Britain and come up with whatever mischievement I would think of. The best Unit I could have there was the "Celtic Hoplite" otherwise I relied on mercenaries and local units. My question is if I could try something similiar in EBII ?

[Boogie Knight]

Both polis and colony are regionalised; they're impacted where Greeks/Makedonians/Hellenised others would want to go. Put a polis in Britain and you'll get very few units (a scraping of Greek traders and their families). Put a colony there and you'll get nothing at all.

As an Englishman I can confirm there's no reason a Greek, a Macedonian or really anyone from that part of the world would want or have wanted to come here. Throughout history we have gone to Greece, whether to beat up their rivals or to embarrass ourselves at their holiday resorts.

[QuintusSertorius]

Hehe, I see. Are desired areas indicitated by a building icon on the city browser? Or do I have to use my common sense ?

The giveaway in the building browser is that the building will show no units recruitable. However, because of the way it works, only showing buildings you are currently able to build, you can't see polis/colony until you have colonists available.

The Recruitment Viewer is another means - you'll note there's basically no Greek recruitment in Britain and lots of peripheral places.

Generally I remember from EBI taking my entire KH faction to Britain and come up with whatever mischievement I would think of. The best Unit I could have there was the "Celtic Hoplite" otherwise I relied on mercenaries and local units. My question is if I could try something similiar in EBII ?

EBII isn't freeform alternate history, I'm afraid. While you can have a Faction Leader crazy enough to take his court to cold, wet, rainy Britain, the inability to grow olives or enjoy any of the mainstays of Greek culture means not many can be induced to follow.

This is the polis_three pool for most of the remote places:

recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry hippakontistai"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_kh, f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_seleukid, f_ptolemaioi, f_pontos, f_pergamon, f_bosporan, f_baktria, } and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and not hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource greek1 and not hidden_resource greek2 and not hidden_resource pontic and hidden_resource baltic or hidden_resource belgic or hidden_resource briton or hidden_resource celtiberia or hidden_resource daha or hidden_resource ethiopia or hidden_resource dacia or hidden_resource germania or hidden_resource indo or hidden_resource lusitan or hidden_resource saka
recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry thureopherontes hippeis"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_kh, f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_seleukid, f_ptolemaioi, f_pontos, f_pergamon, f_bosporan, f_baktria, } and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and not hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource greek1 and not hidden_resource greek2 and not hidden_resource pontic and hidden_resource baltic or hidden_resource belgic or hidden_resource briton or hidden_resource celtiberia or hidden_resource daha or hidden_resource ethiopia or hidden_resource dacia or hidden_resource germania or hidden_resource indo or hidden_resource lusitan or hidden_resource saka
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hoplitai haploi"  1  0.08  2  0  requires factions { f_kh, f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_seleukid, f_ptolemaioi, f_pontos, f_pergamon, f_bosporan, f_baktria, } and not event_counter ecThureosReform 1 and not hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource greek1 and not hidden_resource greek2 and not hidden_resource pontic and hidden_resource baltic or hidden_resource belgic or hidden_resource briton or hidden_resource celtiberia or hidden_resource daha or hidden_resource ethiopia or hidden_resource dacia or hidden_resource germania or hidden_resource indo or hidden_resource lusitan or hidden_resource saka
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hoplitai haploi"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_kh, f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_seleukid, f_ptolemaioi, f_pontos, f_pergamon, f_bosporan, f_baktria, } and event_counter ecThureosReform 1 and not hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource greek1 and not hidden_resource greek2 and not hidden_resource pontic and hidden_resource baltic or hidden_resource belgic or hidden_resource briton or hidden_resource celtiberia or hidden_resource daha or hidden_resource ethiopia or hidden_resource dacia or hidden_resource germania or hidden_resource indo or hidden_resource lusitan or hidden_resource saka
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry akontistai"  1  0.08  2  0  requires factions { f_kh, f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_seleukid, f_ptolemaioi, f_pontos, f_pergamon, f_bosporan, f_baktria, } and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and not hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource greek1 and not hidden_resource greek2 and not hidden_resource pontic and hidden_resource baltic or hidden_resource belgic or hidden_resource briton or hidden_resource celtiberia or hidden_resource daha or hidden_resource ethiopia or hidden_resource dacia or hidden_resource germania or hidden_resource indo or hidden_resource lusitan or hidden_resource saka 
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry akontistai"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_kh, f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_seleukid, f_ptolemaioi, f_pontos, f_pergamon, f_bosporan, f_baktria, } and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and not hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource greek1 and not hidden_resource greek2 and not hidden_resource pontic and hidden_resource baltic or hidden_resource belgic or hidden_resource briton or hidden_resource celtiberia or hidden_resource daha or hidden_resource ethiopia or hidden_resource dacia or hidden_resource germania or hidden_resource indo or hidden_resource lusitan or hidden_resource saka
recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry toxotai"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_kh, f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_seleukid, f_ptolemaioi, f_pontos, f_pergamon, f_bosporan, f_baktria, } and not hidden_resource hellen1 and not hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource greek1 and not hidden_resource greek2 and not hidden_resource pontic and hidden_resource baltic or hidden_resource belgic or hidden_resource briton or hidden_resource celtiberia or hidden_resource daha or hidden_resource ethiopia or hidden_resource dacia or hidden_resource germania or hidden_resource indo or hidden_resource lusitan or hidden_resource saka

The Keltohellenikoi, much to my own personal disappointment, have been cut due to lack of evidence. The graves the EB1 description mentions are pure fiction, unfortunately.

[QuintusSertorius]

This counts as an update - the updated merc pools:

[Akhenaton]

The giveaway in the building browser is that the building will show no units recruitable. However, because of the way it works, only showing buildings you are currently able to build, you can't see polis/colony until you have colonists available.

The Recruitment Viewer is another means - you'll note there's basically no Greek recruitment in Britain and lots of peripheral places.



EBII isn't freeform alternate history, I'm afraid. While you can have a Faction Leader crazy enough to take his court to cold, wet, rainy Britain, the inability to grow olives or enjoy any of the mainstays of Greek culture means not many can be induced to follow.

The Keltohellenikoi, much to my own personal disappointment, have been cut due to lack of evidence. The graves the EB1 description mentions are pure fiction, unfortunately.

Well, guess I´ll have to stick then to more realistic scnearios like overthrowing all the diadochoi kingdoms as the KH Thank you for the code, It will be very useful during my playthroughs!
Can´t wait to see EBII 2.2 in action, is there a clan on twc or steam group about EBII I could become part of?

It is unfortunate about the Keltohellenikoi, but if it means that it made room for a well researched unit it was worth it.

[bordinis]

I need my drugs now

[QuintusSertorius]

Well, guess I´ll have to stick then to more realistic scnearios like overthrowing all the diadochoi kingdoms as the KH Thank you for the code, It will be very useful during my playthroughs!
Can´t wait to see EBII 2.2 in action, is there a clan on twc or steam group about EBII I could become part of?

It is unfortunate about the Keltohellenikoi, but if it means that it made room for a well researched unit it was worth it.

There's still some leeway, it's not completely on rails. KH have a broader range of native recruitment from their particular non-polis-possessing government buildings than the others do. You can establish them quite comfortably anywhere that's actually touching the Mediterranean, though because they can't build new polis' that may restrict where you'd want to put your capital (Massalia and Kyrene are good choices for this reason).

But the primary reason besides not straying too far into alt-history is to preserve the distinctions between the factions. If everyone can go anywhere, there's no reason to play Baktria rather than the Seleukids, for example.

I've no idea about clans or Steam groups - Anubis88 is your man for that sort of thing.

Yeah, Keltohellenikoi were one of my favourite units in EB1, I'm sad to see them go.

[VINC.XXIII]

The Keltohellenikoi, much to my own personal disappointment, have been cut due to lack of evidence. The graves the EB1 description mentions are pure fiction, unfortunately.

Great. But you can still allow the greek faction holding Massalia to recruit celtic mercenaries.

[bordinis]

I loved that Arverni had those late spearmen in red big oval shields which were a good distinction from Aedui ;( And Celts actually had druids

[Akhenaton]

There's still some leeway, it's not completely on rails. KH have a broader range of native recruitment from their particular non-polis-possessing government buildings than the others do. You can establish them quite comfortably anywhere that's actually touching the Mediterranean, though because they can't build new polis' that may restrict where you'd want to put your capital (Massalia and Kyrene are good choices for this reason).

But the primary reason besides not straying too far into alt-history is to preserve the distinctions between the factions. If everyone can go anywhere, there's no reason to play Baktria rather than the Seleukids, for example.

I've no idea about clans or Steam groups - Anubis88 is your man for that sort of thing.

Yeah, Keltohellenikoi were one of my favourite units in EB1, I'm sad to see them go.

One of the things I loved about EB right from the start was that outside of your homelands you could not recruit your best units. Want to use your shiny elite troops to conquer your neighbour? Well good luck replenishing your troops in foreign lands. It alway made it necessary to rely on local auxiliary forces and mercenaries or to have set up an effective supply line before an invasion. I guess one of the few exceptions were the Celts, who had settled all around Central Europe, Britain and Minor Aisa and maybe also the Romans?

[shiraio]

Is there any plan to introduce a late, more heavily armored version of cataphracts ( "Grivpanar") for Pathia?

[QuintusSertorius]

Great. But you can still allow the greek faction holding Massalia to recruit celtic mercenaries.

That's called building an Allied Government, or recruiting from the merc pool that's already available. You're not getting them out of the factional government, because none of the Hellenistic factions (with the exception of KH) have any native Celtic recruitment out of their governments (except for Galatia, which is a special case).

One of the things I loved about EB right from the start was that outside of your homelands you could not recruit your best units. Want to use your shiny elite troops to conquer your neighbour? Well good luck replenishing your troops in foreign lands. It alway made it necessary to rely on local auxiliary forces and mercenaries or to have set up an effective supply line before an invasion. I guess one of the few exceptions were the Celts, who had settled all around Central Europe, Britain and Minor Aisa and maybe also the Romans?

Yep, there's an awful lot of that with the regionalisation of almost all recruitment. Romans are as reliant on local recruitment as the Hellenistic factions, they can't get Romanised units until after the Marian reform. Even then, you can't recruit core Marian units outside Italy, only local equivalents (Thorakitai, Iberian Scutarii, Galatianised Infantry, Numidian Infantry, late Libyans, etc).

Is there any plan to introduce a late, more heavily armored version of cataphracts ( "Grivpanar") for Pathia?

Aren't the existing ones heavy enough for you? There's an "eastern" cataphract on the list, no idea what that's supposed to be, or even if it's still relevant.

[shiraio]

Aren't the existing ones heavy enough for you? There's an "eastern" cataphract on the list, no idea what that's supposed to be, or even if it's still relevant.

They are :-)

It's just that I was playing a bit of EB1 after a long time, and I was reminded of the Grivpanars, whose appearance was super-cool.(Not that the Cataphracts of EB2 aren't awesome looking, they are)

[Anubis88]

They are :-)

It's just that I was playing a bit of EB1 after a long time, and I was reminded of the Grivpanars, whose appearance was super-cool.(Not that the Cataphracts of EB2 aren't awesome looking, they are)

Yes they are still planned. I was actually surprised to see it, since the ones that are currently there already look heavy as hell. They are not a priority unit right now though. But you never know; if an artist feels like its their turn, then it's their turn

I don't know about the EB clans on steam and stuff though

[QuintusSertorius]

They are :-)

It's just that I was playing a bit of EB1 after a long time, and I was reminded of the Grivpanars, whose appearance was super-cool.(Not that the Cataphracts of EB2 aren't awesome looking, they are)

As a general rule, when EB1 units weren't pure fantasy, they were far too heavily armoured. So if that's your standard, you may be disappointed more often than not.