Thread: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

  1. #2961
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    13,228

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Speaking of the campaign map, is Persia accurately presented in this mod? I understand that there are two large deserts in the east, but the western half is rather green, with a mild Mediterranean type climate, and even wooded in some parts. I would assume this was even more so in distant antiquity before modern logging or even medieval logging, deforestation, and land clearance for agriculture. The northernmost parts of Persia around the base of the Caspian Sea are at least green-looking enough on the campaign map.

  2. #2962
    b0Gia de Bodemloze's Avatar Europa Barbarorum Dev
    Patrician Artifex

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Makedonia, Greece
    Posts
    1,833

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactics Mayers View Post
    Ah, does it mean that Sparta will have the Cretan units and the Tarantine Cavalry to recruit?

    Maybe there would be even more Spartan Hoplites (A max number of 2 Spartan Hoplites as opposed to only 1) to recruit due to the reforms.

    But they should still have a phalanx unit since they did use the sarrisa regardless of how brief it is and omit it would be odd. Maybe they should be limited to the Phalangitai Deuteroi?
    The whole point is to have or not recruitable phalangitai deuteroi in Sparte. As it is now there are not.
    Under the Patronage of Veteraan.
    Proud member of Europa Barbarorum 2 team, developer of EBNOM, developer of EB 1.21, developer of Diadochi Total War, developer of Hegemonia City States and creator of one modpack for Megas Alexandros.


  3. #2963

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Perhaps it is a good occasion to promote my favourite blog on contemporary military matters with this post tangential to the content of the blog but pertinent to this debate here...
    :sparta:

    ...................................................

  4. #2964
    Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ's Avatar Yeah science!
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Άργος - Ἑλλάς
    Posts
    1,203

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by V.T. Marvin View Post
    Perhaps it is a good occasion to promote my favourite blog on contemporary military matters with this post tangential to the content of the blog but pertinent to this debate here...
    :sparta:
    Sir, as a Greek I'm deeply offended with that post comparing Spartans to Nazis, on the other hand, I'm also an Argive... so I don't care that much... or at all.
    Last edited by Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σω April 14, 2016 at 02:25 PM.

  5. #2965
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    13,228

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollodotos I Soter View Post
    Sir, as a Greek I'm deeply offended with that post comparing Spartans to Nazis, on the other hand, I'm also an Argive... so I don't care that much... or at all.
    Or to put it in a way that Americans can understand: New York versus Boston.

  6. #2966

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by V.T. Marvin View Post
    Perhaps it is a good occasion to promote my favourite blog on contemporary military matters with this post tangential to the content of the blog but pertinent to this debate here...
    :sparta:
    Such kind of dangerous conclusions are the result of a very superficial knowledge in history and logic, a wishful thinking when you compare just one thing and don't consider so much other things. Likewise I can say that the Pharaoh Ramesses was protonazi because he exploited jewish people, Genghis Khan was protonazi because he used concentration camps, the American settlers were protonazis because they massacred the native tribes... Plz, read a bit more deeper about history, culture and common sense and you will be free of that kind of simplified comparisons and delusions. The real history is much more interesting, complex and impressive than any of us can suppose.

  7. #2967
    b0Gia de Bodemloze's Avatar Europa Barbarorum Dev
    Patrician Artifex

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Makedonia, Greece
    Posts
    1,833

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by V.T. Marvin View Post
    Perhaps it is a good occasion to promote my favourite blog on contemporary military matters with this post tangential to the content of the blog but pertinent to this debate here...
    :sparta:
    Quote Originally Posted by de Armas View Post
    Such kind of dangerous conclusions are the result of a very superficial knowledge in history and logic, a wishful thinking when you compare just one thing and don't consider so much other things. Likewise I can say that the Pharaoh Ramesses was protonazi because he exploited jewish people, Genghis Khan was protonazi because he used concentration camps, the American settlers were protonazis because they massacred the native tribes... Plz, read a bit more deeper about history, culture and common sense and you will be free of that kind of simplified comparisons and delusions. The real history is much more interesting, complex and impressive than any of us can suppose.
    I can't agree more on this de Armas. There are some people like the writer of this article that their ideology is the mishellenism. They hate everything that is hellenic, they propagandize everything about ancient Hellas. Because their ancestors were unwashed barbarians on the steppe of the north now they have complex that they don't have ancient history and everything about science, culture, philosophy is hellenic. V.T. Marvin you might be the best man in the world , i don't criticize you but the post and the writer.
    Under the Patronage of Veteraan.
    Proud member of Europa Barbarorum 2 team, developer of EBNOM, developer of EB 1.21, developer of Diadochi Total War, developer of Hegemonia City States and creator of one modpack for Megas Alexandros.


  8. #2968
    wudang_clown's Avatar Fire Is Inspirational
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    7,357

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by de Armas View Post
    Such kind of dangerous conclusions are the result of a very superficial knowledge in history and logic, a wishful thinking when you compare just one thing and don't consider so much other things. Likewise I can say that the Pharaoh Ramesses was protonazi because he exploited jewish people, Genghis Khan was protonazi because he used concentration camps, the American settlers were protonazis because they massacred the native tribes... Plz, read a bit more deeper about history, culture and common sense and you will be free of that kind of simplified comparisons and delusions. The real history is much more interesting, complex and impressive than any of us can suppose.
    A private opinion uttered in a private blog may only be dangerous to a radically conservative mind.

    That opinion is a somewhat exaggerated answer to much more exaggerated image of Spartan culture served by the Western pop culture. That image boils down to Spartans being some kind of special forces of the ancient world, which is utter rubbish, obviously. In the meantime, they lived in a pretty nasty society, judging by the modern standards.

    The same could be said about samurai culture, for example. There is a long lasting hype around in, while in fact the samurai where a product of a pretty terrible, oppressive and exclusive society. Sure, everyone is very excited reading haiku written by a samurai, because it is so clever and beautiful, and everyone is in awe of how well katanas were made, but of course no one thinks about how all the peasants were ed on a daily basis.

    You are right, Genghis Khan, the Americans, the French, the British and many more were all proto-Nazis at some point in their history. That's exactly the point the author of that post tries to make: pop culture is selective, it will take something, turn it around to show you only positive aspects of that thing just so you could consume it and then ask for more.

    You completely missed the point, I'm afraid.
    Last edited by wudang_clown; April 14, 2016 at 04:49 PM.

    Under the patronage of m_1512

  9. #2969
    Foederatus
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Hermannstadt
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by b0Gia View Post
    I can't agree more on this de Armas. There are some people like the writer of this article that their ideology is the mishellenism. They hate everything that is hellenic, they propagandize everything about ancient Hellas. Because their ancestors were unwashed barbarians on the steppe of the north now they have complex that they don't have ancient history and everything about science, culture, philosophy is hellenic. V.T. Marvin you might be the best man in the world , i don't criticize you but the post and the writer.
    Every single nation has "ancient history and everything about science, culture, philosophy". The problem is that we dont know anything about it. I always thought that the barbaric world is more civilized that we think. After all, the "civilization" thing is a matter of perception.

  10. #2970
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
    Artifex

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    11,376

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactics Mayers View Post
    Ah, does it mean that Sparta will have the Cretan units and the Tarantine Cavalry to recruit?

    Maybe there would be even more Spartan Hoplites (A max number of 2 Spartan Hoplites as opposed to only 1) to recruit due to the reforms.

    But they should still have a phalanx unit since they did use the sarrisa regardless of how brief it is and omit it would be odd. Maybe they should be limited to the Phalangitai Deuteroi?
    If you build a Hellenistic Colony in Sparte, you get Kretans, because anyone in the eastern Med who does will get them. They don't come from the polis, though, which is where the Spartan units come from. They don't get Tarentine cavalry.

    Sparte is the only place you can get Spartan Hoplites.

    Deuteroi are the only phalanx unit for Greece, outside of Makedonia itself. It's omitted for Sparte because they are distinct and do their own thing. None of the Hellenistic reforms are applied in the same way there.


    As for the tangent on Spartan society, in my view theirs was an abhorrent nightmare of a way to organise people. For all the geek mythologising in pop culture, it was a horrible place to live for the vast majority of people.

  11. #2971

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by b0Gia View Post
    I can't agree more on this de Armas. There are some people like the writer of this article that their ideology is the mishellenism. They hate everything that is hellenic, they propagandize everything about ancient Hellas. Because their ancestors were unwashed barbarians on the steppe of the north now they have complex that they don't have ancient history and everything about science, culture, philosophy is hellenic.
    My ancestors "were unwashed barbarians from the steppe" But I don't care about this and don't try to compare because, we like it or not, the ancestors of everyone of us were monkeys from Equatorial Africa


    Quote Originally Posted by wudang_clown View Post
    A private opinion uttered in a private blog may only be dangerous to a radically conservative mind.

    That opinion is a somewhat exaggerated answer to much more exaggerated image of Spartan culture served by the Western pop culture. That image boils down to Spartans being some kind of special forces of the ancient world, which is utter rubbish, obviously. In the meantime, they lived in a pretty nasty society, judging by the modern standards.

    The same could be said about samurai culture, for example. There is a long lasting hype around in, while in fact the samurai where a product of a pretty terrible, oppressive and exclusive society. Sure, everyone is very excited reading haiku written by a samurai, because it is so clever and beautiful, and everyone is in awe of how well katanas were made, but of course no one thinks about how all the peasants were ed on a daily basis.

    You are right, Genghis Khan, the Americans, the French, the British and many more were all proto-Nazis at some point in their history. That's exactly the point the author of that post tries to make: pop culture is selective, it will take something, turn it around to show you only positive aspects of that thing just so you could consume it and then ask for more.

    You completely missed the point, I'm afraid.
    You are right about the pop culture. All I'm trying to say is that that kind of comparisons are a bit irresponsible and offensive. Tryind to do simple pseudoscientific "conclusions", like "my wife cheated on me, she has dark hair, so every dark-haired woman is a cheater" we do a big mistake and we have to avoid this. The reality is a bit more complicated and we have to keep in mind a lot of other things, like the relation between nations in ancient times, the attitude to the slavery, to the women, to the human life and death.


    This kind of simplifying, unfortunately, makes a lot of problematic myths in the modern real life I'm trying to combat all my life, like every muslim is a terrorist, all russians are mafiosy and the spartans were proto-nazis... That prejudices just closes our eyes to the reality.


    But well, this discussion is a bit unpleasant and totally out of place.

  12. #2972
    b0Gia de Bodemloze's Avatar Europa Barbarorum Dev
    Patrician Artifex

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Makedonia, Greece
    Posts
    1,833

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Hitler was vegetarian, never trust this kind of people.
    Under the Patronage of Veteraan.
    Proud member of Europa Barbarorum 2 team, developer of EBNOM, developer of EB 1.21, developer of Diadochi Total War, developer of Hegemonia City States and creator of one modpack for Megas Alexandros.


  13. #2973
    b0Gia de Bodemloze's Avatar Europa Barbarorum Dev
    Patrician Artifex

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Makedonia, Greece
    Posts
    1,833

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    If nazis and neonazis are seeing their ideology in ancient greece they are sick. Life standarts are not the same for all time periods.
    Under the Patronage of Veteraan.
    Proud member of Europa Barbarorum 2 team, developer of EBNOM, developer of EB 1.21, developer of Diadochi Total War, developer of Hegemonia City States and creator of one modpack for Megas Alexandros.


  14. #2974

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    What are "Spartan Hoplites?" Are they just epilektoi hoplitai with Corinthian helmets and lambda shields? Do they move faster, have better morale, are better armoured, etc.?
    And speaking of units, are late libyan skirmishers still a thing?

    Slightly off topic:
    There is this discussion thread on the "ask historians" subreddit about Sparta. Is this view in line with academic consensus?
    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria...tary_aid_by_a/

  15. #2975

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by doeop View Post
    What are "Spartan Hoplites?" Are they just epilektoi hoplitai with Corinthian helmets and lambda shields? Do they move faster, have better morale, are better armoured, etc.?
    And speaking of units, are late libyan skirmishers still a thing?

    Slightly off topic:
    There is this discussion thread on the "ask historians" subreddit about Sparta. Is this view in line with academic consensus?
    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria...tary_aid_by_a/
    Spartan Hoplites are basically just Epilektoi Hoplitai with slightly higher morale and a much larger stamina due to their intense training.

  16. #2976
    wudang_clown's Avatar Fire Is Inspirational
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    7,357

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by de Armas View Post
    That prejudices just closes our eyes to the reality.
    That wasn't a prejudice, but a hyperbole. It's meant to evoke strong feelings. You don't take hyperbole literally.

    Also, attempting to defend an extinct ethnic group is a bit out of place.

    Under the patronage of m_1512

  17. #2977
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    13,228

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactics Mayers View Post
    Spartan Hoplites are basically just Epilektoi Hoplitai with slightly higher morale and a much larger stamina due to their intense training.
    Congratulations! You are correct!


  18. #2978
    Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ's Avatar Yeah science!
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Άργος - Ἑλλάς
    Posts
    1,203

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    New close up images of Nile Delta on twitter.
    "First get your facts straight, then distort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain

    οὐκ ἦν μὲν ἐγώ, νῦν δ' εἰμί τότε δ' ούκ ἔσομαι, ούδέ μοι μελήσει

  19. #2979

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Great stuff on the Nile Delta, looks sweet! Does it become impassable for armies when it floods? Or is that beyond the capabilities of the engine?

  20. #2980
    Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ's Avatar Yeah science!
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Άργος - Ἑλλάς
    Posts
    1,203

    Default Re: EB-Twitter updates Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by wrighty0044 View Post
    Great stuff on the Nile Delta, looks sweet! Does it become impassable for armies when it floods? Or is that beyond the capabilities of the engine?
    I'm pretty sure that's impossible to make. Areas are either traversable or not, seasonal changes don't matter.
    "First get your facts straight, then distort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain

    οὐκ ἦν μὲν ἐγώ, νῦν δ' εἰμί τότε δ' ούκ ἔσομαι, ούδέ μοι μελήσει

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •