EB-Twitter updates Discussion

[Rad]

Maybe it is better to do small mistakes on a few units than hesitating decades about details before to start working on it. Because anyway, if there is a mistake, there are only textures to change.

That rarely, if at all, happens here. The team moves on to making new units, repeating some earlier issues. Thats a fault I share when it comes to exercising. I sacrifice proper form for more reps -.-

And I don't think the standard is really lower than before.

What I can say is that a lot of units are being cobbled together from existing parts. No one is asking for a completely new design with every unit, but things like color patterns could be more varied, for example.

[Genava]

As well, somehow the mod was perfect and superior at the historical level in the past, even though there has been at least one faction with real historical problems for ages, and which is now finally undergoing an overhaul.

A hint for the last faction symbol? :-)

Edit: The color is kinda the same than the Lougiones/Lugians
https://image.ibb.co/eBpSHo/comparison.png

It could be the Lugians because the symbol is actually a pictish symbol from 900 AD, and maybe there is other issues with this faction. If it is not the Lugians, then the faction color seems to suggest a faction that is not in proximity of the Lugians. We can exclude the Getai, the Boii and the Sweboz. The Arevaci are very recent and there is no reason to change the faction symbol. The others candidates are the Arveni, the Aedui and the Pritanoi. The Pritanoi are the closer in color, but they already got a huge modification since EB1. And the work of oudysseos is well documented. Thus there is the gallic factions, the Arveni and the Aedui. If one of them got a change in color, it won't be problematic with the other factions I think.

[Genghis Skahn]

Brennus has said in the past that the Aruernoi symbol needs to go(we have yet to come up with an alternate symbol though, and spata is our only 2d artist capable of making a new one AFAIK--lack of a proper 2d artist had delayed faction symbol changes greatly in the past), but he said the Aedui symbol was fine.

[bordinis]

Maybe the nobles were very colorful. I don't know that for sure. But barbaric units especially those unarmored with cloaks should have darker colors, since they lived and raided people in forested areas mostly and at night, especially Lugians and germanic tribes, I guess darker cloaks by germanic infantry are a dream.. Any germanic/baltic units on a horizon?

P.s About thracians, cool unit, but maybe enough of thracians for the game already?'D

[Genghis Skahn]

Maybe the nobles were very colorful. I don't know that for sure. But barbaric units especially those unarmored with cloaks should have darker colors, since they lived and raided people in forested areas mostly and at night, especially Lugians and germanic tribes, I guess darker cloaks by germanic infantry are a dream.. Any germanic/baltic units on a horizon?

P.s About thracians, cool unit, but maybe enough of thracians for the game already?'D

I think the zibutai are the last "pure" thracian unit, but there's still a few thracian regional units planned AFAIK.

About colors, there's an old post in the CM subfora of EBH discussing it in depth:

Colour of ancient clothing by Forgus

I made a little reseach on the topic, here are the much simplified results:

Fabric colours in antiquity


Blue: Basicly two blue dyes are available in our timeframe, woad and indigo.
woad is available in Northern/mid Europe, while indigo comes from India.
They both contain the same dye, though indigo a lot more. Depending on the number of washes all shades from light blue to dark blue could be acchieved.
Takeaway: Blue dye is not very expensive, even in darker hues


woad varieties


indigoes


Red: The primary source of red in Europe is Madder. It produces a colours from pink to rusty brown, including duller oranges. It was available all over Europe, and came quite cheap. Archil too was used in the Mediterranean, that yields a purplish colour, but is more expensive
Takeway: Red is quite cheap too.


Madder varieties (ignore woad)

Yellow: yellow can be produced from a number of plants, like safflower, chaomime, or peppergrass, these gave duller colours. Brighter yellow came from weld (could be a bit greenish) or saffron full, warm yellow. These came much more expensive, especially saffron.
Takeaway: easy with bright yellows, use on officers, or make your colours desaturated


wool painted with weld


Buddhist monk in saffron coloured robe

Green: Green dye was not available inour timeframe, though good results could be acchieved by overdying woad with weld. Also, weld treated with copper should be light greenish.
Takeaway: Beware Epirotes, geen dye is expensive!!!


woad on weld

Purple: you all know about tyrian purple, but cheaper blue purples are available via overdying madder with woad!
Takeaway: Blue-purple is not off limits, especially not for officers!


Tyrian purple

Black: There is no black dye in antiquity, however similar results could be acchieved using wallnut iron, or heavy indigoing. Other recipees are available too, but the result isn't long lasting.
Takeaway: Rich black is expensive, dark gray is more likely, especially on a soldier.

White: Not dying, but bleaching was used frequently, moderately expensive.

Unfortunately, many of the images have died(such as the examples of green fabric dyed with weld+woad). Darker colors, such as darker reds, AFAIK were actually more expensive than a brighter red or brighter blue(needs more dye for a darker color, hence it costs more). So for barbarians, contrary to your expectation, blue, green and red colors would all be totally available to them(and is present in their units), especially the lighter kinds since darker colors require more dye, usually. AFAIK, there are quite a few barbaric units with light blue pants for eg.

To supplement some of the missing images:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_purple (made from aquatic snails--very expensive)

https://normanlady.wordpress.com/201...d-part-2-of-2/ scroll down for finished product pictures of weld+woad dye colors.

[Genava]

Brennus has said in the past that the Aruernoi symbol needs to go(we have yet to come up with an alternate symbol though, and spata is our only 2d artist capable of making a new one AFAIK), but he said the Aedui symbol was fine.

Thanks a lot for your reply. It is tough to guess this one, the bull symbology is so common among indo-european cultures.

For the Aruernoi, I suggested this in the past:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=#post14497406

And maybe another well-known find in Clermont-Ferrand (Auvergne):
https://ibb.co/jNqef8
https://ibb.co/f6LUf8
https://ibb.co/hZF9V8



Edit: here is a very cool website about the archeology in the region (Auvergne) and there is a list of similar painted vases with this strange mythological animal
http://arvernie.free.fr/spip.php?article40

Here the 3D model in video:
http://arvernie.free.fr/IMG/webm/vasesgandaillat1.webm

Here some figures from an archeological publication (Deberge Y., "Nouvel ensemble de vases à décours peints en territoire arverne", JRGZ, 57, 2010)
https://ibb.co/faJSiT
https://ibb.co/dBHniT

I hope it will help you or at least that you will enjoy the pictures

[bordinis]

Thanks mate I guess people of those times used what's cheapest for them.

[Genava]

Thanks mate I guess people of those times used what's cheapest for them.

If you are looking for more informations:
https://www.irit.fr/publis/SIG/2015_JASIST_C.pdf

[Assurancetourix]

I'm convinced that the team members are smart and passionate enough to overcome the misplaced criticism expressed above, but a bit of encouragement never hurts so here it comes: I thank all of you for the time and energy you're giving to this mod despite all the difficulties inherent to such collective and non lucrative undertaking. No matter what you are working on, you have my greatest gratitude! EBII is undoubtedly my favorite game of all time and that is thanks to you!

PS: Being more an infantry commander, I'm more excited about the Pezoi Kolkhikoi, but it's good to see the steppes getting more diversity.

[Ivir Baggins]

I'm not too familiar with how historical these models are, but they're very nice looking and I hope they're fun to play with, because I've postponed starting my Hayasdan campaign until 2.3.5 comes out.

[Kull]

But no, you're right--back to those fart compilations.

Hey those things are FUN!!!! Just look at yesterday for example. If EB2 were a REAL mod team then spata would have finished his total icon upgrade for a faction, xHolycrusader would have posted the new faction intro video, abou would have created 60 new Greek unit voices (and HoundEFU would have mastered them to fit seamlessly in-game), Kull would have created a full set of seven new Gov icons (and upgraded others), and countless other team members would have been playtesting, proof reading, carrying out new concept discussions, working on new units, providing linguistic guidance, and many other valuable and mod-enhancing activities.

But that's only if we had a REAL team. Thank God for fart compilations. Much more interesting and rewarding!

[Rad]

misplaced criticism

There is none.

[bordinis]

Textures by Gustave.. Is he making new ones or are you using his older creations?

[Genghis Skahn]

The Zibutai were essentially 90% done when he quit, wermez finished them off for the team(I'm guessing with his permission but don't quote me on that).

[Baharr]

Interesting about the horses, thanks! I know the steppe units use ponies (their descriptions emphasise the small stature and hardiness of their steppe ponies) but I didn't know medieval warhorses were significantly larger. Presumably they were descended from Nisaean stock that made its way west? Is there even such a study?

Also super interesting about the dyes - I wasn't as thrown by the very colourful unit renditions because I knew that a good chunk (even most?) of textiles produced during this period would be dyed in some way, and "natural" (as in pre-Industrial Revolution) dyes are, to my knowledge, very vibrant. Non-synthetic Japanese indigo dye is to this day famous for the depth and range of blues it can produce, for example.

[QuintusSertorius]

Interesting about the horses, thanks! I know the steppe units use ponies (their descriptions emphasise the small stature and hardiness of their steppe ponies) but I didn't know medieval warhorses were significantly larger. Presumably they were descended from Nisaean stock that made its way west? Is there even such a study?

Not all the steppe units use ponies, though all the riders do (they're breeds related to the Tarpan pony, which can subsist entirely on grass, unlike many horses which require grain as well). Their lords had horses, and some of the higher-status steppe units have horses rather than ponies. They also knew the Nisaean, which was the horse of kings of the steppe.

[QuintusSertorius]

New unit on the feeds.

[Dargaron]

What is this? Nudity south of the Alps? That's HERESY!

So, we've got three Sauromatae regionals, Thracian cavalry, some Colchian infantry and south Italians thus far. Could've used most of those in my Pontos campaign...

EDIT: Of course, the preview that we're all waiting for the Armorican Tribesmen description. I'd really like to know about the historical significance of PLACEHOLDER in a wider context, and it'd give the text guys a moment in the spotlight.

[hlidskjalf]

what contemporary info is there on armorica other than de bello gallico?

[Ivir Baggins]

New unit on the feeds.

Don't think I didn't spot the new flag there.

By which I mean why does the Epirote flag now have a red background?