EB-Twitter updates Discussion

[Cohors_Evocata]

Cool read thx! I'd really love to see one of these frescos if you have access to some! I had a big smile yesterday when i saw a nabataean engraving with a thureos and an axe like the nabataean agema.
Hmm yeah I'd like to know the source of those horned helmets too! cool stuff will make armenia even more interessting

On the Bosporans - you may find this article an interesting read: http://rcin.org.pl/dlibra/docmetadata?id=54812

[Tactics Mayers]

The more EB2 is developing, the more it becomes more and more varied and interesting.

Especially with M2's recruitment system forcing to you to recruit any units you have available, no more recruiting only 1 type of unit in Rome 1.

These Karvelian Warriors are one of the most unique units I've seen in EB2. Their horned helmets, wardrobe(Are they wearing black fur coats?) and shield design is striking. What are those shield textures? They look like cement and stone.

[alex33]

On the Bosporans - you may find this article an interesting read: http://rcin.org.pl/dlibra/docmetadata?id=54812

Very interessting! I‘d still be interessted in the fresco tho, maybe arjos could post it when he comes by here

[_Tartaros_]

horned helmets for the caucasians?
never understood why, biggest disadvantage in melee - headgrabbing + less space and movement in formations

[Nimor]

Very interessting! I‘d still be interessted in the fresco tho, maybe arjos could post it when he comes by here

There's one right at the cover of mielczareks book. And regarding their AOR, it's Bosporion Tyrranesis Taurike Khersonesos and Maiotis. Varustana as well, if I remember correctly.
And they're well worth the 200 turn wait fest.

[NapoleonMaster]

What about them? Hayastan aren't a Hellenistic faction, different factions get different treatments.

I often build the two imperial seats in Persepolis and Sardeis.

And now that i know that you can have only one Imperial Seat.

Maybe the best option is to build it on Sardeis since the majority of factions are in the west.

Can i ask you where do you think would be the best spot for the Imperial Seat?.

[Rail93]

Is any hellenistic unit for bactria or india under development? Planned? Please, please I beg for any info

[Roma_Victrix]

horned helmets for the caucasians?
never understood why, biggest disadvantage in melee - headgrabbing + less space and movement in formations

Perhaps the trade-off was it being less practical in exchange for it looking more fearsome to one's opponents. Personally I don't think I would be distracted by it on the battlefield, but it's kinda like that ancient Celtic helmet with the metal flapping bird on top. You're focusing on that instead of the sword that's coming right at you.

http://www.unc.edu/celtic/images/216662.jpg

[QuintusSertorius]

I often build the two imperial seats in Persepolis and Sardeis.

And now that i know that you can have only one Imperial Seat.

Maybe the best option is to build it on Sardeis since the majority of factions are in the west.

Can i ask you where do you think would be the best spot for the Imperial Seat?.

If the bulk of your new empire is in the west, then Sardeis. If on the other hand you prioritise the east, then Persepolis. Though in both cases there are a range of big cities in Anatolia and Iran that would suit.

Is any hellenistic unit for bactria or india under development? Planned? Please, please I beg for any info

The Baktrian elite cavalry equivalent to the Hetairoi is still to come. Otherwise there are still more Indian units to come particularly "Skythian" ones, meaning settled Sakan cavalry.

[QuintusSertorius]

I knew the Galatians would have obviously influenced the Greeks well before the Romans, but I also figured the success of the Polybian Roman legions in the Punic Wars would have had some sort of impact on the neighboring Greeks. No? None? Nothing? No influence at all? Even after the Roman victory at the Battle of Magnesia in 190 BC, against the Seleucids in Anatolia? That's decades before the Romans conquered all of Greece (in 146 BC). I would actually be shocked if the Romans had no impact on the Greek world between those two dates. Is there a scholar who argues that Roman military tactics, styles, and equipment were never borrowed by the Greeks? Ever?

Your guess is as good as mine, as far as I'm aware, no sources have survived that deal with why Hellenistic armies changed their equipment the way they did later on. But I do know the impact of the Romans is often exaggerated, and people try far too hard to find some grand, unifying movement of many nations shifting to "Roman manner" when such a thing probably didn't exist. More likely it's Romanocentric sources making claims about things they don't really have the expertise to understand.

Defeat to the Galatians was an existential crisis for all of Greece, the most powerful nation in that region was systematically crushed by some migrating barbarians who didn't even bother to stay. By contrast, the Romans defeated the various Successors in more conventional battles, and often had Hellenistic allies providing support. It's not the same paradigm-shifting moment.

[Tactics Mayers]

Are these Isaurian Highlanders exclusive only in the one settlement(the area where Isauria is) or will they be recruit-able in anatolia?

[Cohors_Evocata]

Thanks. Arjos, you out there?

Not Arjos, but I've been made to understand that they're based on warrior figurines such as these:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

These images are supposedly based on items retrieved from the Kazbegi hoard, which has been dated variously, but the most common date I've seen given is the 6th century BCE. The decision was made to include them still based on material continuity in the archaeological record (there may be similar figurines from later dates for which no images were posted internally, but I wouldn't know, I can't read Georgian or Russian ). Note that we do have examples of horns being added to helmets in the Hellenistic period in the Caucasus, though in a different form:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Source: https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogs...5kwPbPK4gfA.97

These Karvelian Warriors are one of the most unique units I've seen in EB2. Their horned helmets, wardrobe(Are they wearing black fur coats?) and shield design is striking. What are those shield textures? They look like cement and stone.

Some are indeed wearing wool cloaks. The shields are wood covered in metal bands or narrow metal plates.

[QuintusSertorius]

Are these Isaurian Highlanders exclusive only in the one settlement(the area where Isauria is) or will they be recruit-able in anatolia?

They come from Phrygia and Pamphylia.

[Rad]

Not Arjos, but I've been made to understand that they're based on warrior figurines such as these:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

These images are supposedly based on items retrieved from the Kazbegi hoard, which has been dated variously, but the most common date I've seen given is the 6th century BCE. The decision was made to include them still based on material continuity in the archaeological record (there may be similar figurines from later dates for which no images were posted internally, but I wouldn't know, I can't read Georgian or Russian ). Note that we do have examples of horns being added to helmets in the Hellenistic period in the Caucasus, though in a different form:

Honestly, I wouldn't place too much faith in drawings, scientific or not. This is how you make mistakes.

Small example.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This image that's supposedly showing a Ligurian warrior got directly copied into the game. What's wrong it? The shield. It's not covered with fabric or leather, it's just painted over. That is an oversight. Wooden shields should (as in, must) be covered with leather/fabric for extra durability. Especially for lightly armored units who rely on the shield a lot.

My advice is to find real images of the statues, then make a decision. Even then, it might not justify including horned helmets in that unit. Hell, even the Georgian guy is making a fuss about it on the fb page.

In the case of the Italic/Cisalpine horned helmets, we actually have extant examples.

[athanaric]

there may be similar figurines from later dates for which no images were posted internally, but I wouldn't know, I can't read Georgian or Russian ).

Some of us can, so if you should require assistance with that, feel free to post the material here.

[Sarkiss]

Those Chaldians look fantastic! Excited for their inclusion, too, Hayastan could really use a mainstay "line infantry" unit - especially when it wants to go toe-to-toe with the Seleucids.

unfortunately Khaldians/Chalybes arent meant to serve as the mainstay. not sure why it was presented that way but they are regionals, like QS stated, and served as auxilaries and mercenaries. employed by the local dynasts and satraps of Armenia since the time of Achaemenids, they are not going to be available to Hayastan through regular recruitment until the regions they dwell in have been conquered and incorporated (in one way or another). and iirc any faction can draft them this way. the easiest way is of course to hire them as mercenaries.

[Baharr]

Well, it will be nice to have a dedicated melee combat unit in the area, regardless. My Hai campaigns always have me relying on tribesmen and skirmishers (with a smattering of Hai spearmen), so it's nice to see the region will get a unit with a bit more punch. The fact that it's a local unit and will be available to other factions is awesome, too. My Parthian campaigns always rely heavily on hoplite/phalangite/assorted heavy infantry mercenaries so it's cool that I can get a similar swanky unit in the Caucasus, too

[Roma_Victrix]

Some of us can, so if you should require assistance with that, feel free to post the material here.

Haha! Nice try, Boris. It was only a test, and you fell right into the trap. Now we all know you are KGB. You're coming with us.

[Sarkiss]

Well, it will be nice to have a dedicated melee combat unit in the area, regardless. My Hai campaigns always have me relying on tribesmen and skirmishers (with a smattering of Hai spearmen), so it's nice to see the region will get a unit with a bit more punch. The fact that it's a local unit and will be available to other factions is awesome, too. My Parthian campaigns always rely heavily on hoplite/phalangite/assorted heavy infantry mercenaries so it's cool that I can get a similar swanky unit in the Caucasus, too

yes, i used to do that in Hay campaigns as well. especially when you capture those juicy greek line infantry that you can then recruit from your settlement. i usualy get my line made almost entirely of mercenaries (Akkadian, Greek etc) with Armenian spears on the flanks. i once had a somewhat conjectural concept for a native heavy spearmen but it fell by the wayside. and yes, the more diverse recruitment the better. i love what Arjos did there as well - we've got two specific units now representing different areas and peoples of the Caucasus (one was on the feed not too long ago, i believe). a definite improvement over EB1 'swordsmen' of an uncertain origin.

[Genava]

Perhaps the trade-off was it being less practical in exchange for it looking more fearsome to one's opponents. Personally I don't think I would be distracted by it on the battlefield, but it's kinda like that ancient Celtic helmet with the metal flapping bird on top. You're focusing on that instead of the sword that's coming right at you.

http://www.unc.edu/celtic/images/216662.jpg

It is very hard to interpret the function of a helmet like this. But if you look at the others warrior-like societies, generally the standard conclusion is that these kinds of helmet are only for the commanders in the battlefield or for religious purposes. Try to imagine the biaises in seeing only a few examples of well known societies but without taking in account native written descriptions of their time, for examples with the samurais, with the vikings and with the teutonic order. For the last one, a lot of people are taking too seriously heraldry to think that medieval knights wore gigantic helmets, as a common practice on the battlefield. Interpreting these societies only from a few material and you will get the idea they used horned helmets to fight in the battlefield, like the interpretation of Age of Empire 3 with samurais wearing big horned helmets while being footsoldiers. A contrario, it is not a reason to discard every horned helmets, there is plenty examples of less excentric helmets used in battlefield (Mycenaean for example). But in this case, I find the helmets of Kartvelian Warriors excessive in size for footsoldiers.