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[Tactics Mayers]

What kind of cavalry are these Mandonai? Are they skirmishers or cavakry similar to the Ridonez/Aswinai?

[QuintusSertorius]

What kind of cavalry are these Mandonai? Are they skirmishers or cavakry similar to the Ridonez/Aswinai?

They're skirmishers, though quite durable.

[Rad]

They appear as an elite in places that Hoplites are rare amongst the native population (because there isn't a big enough critical mass of Greeks). That being Histrie, Olbia and Khersonesos.

What makes these folks "Pontic"?

[QuintusSertorius]

What makes these folks "Pontic"?

They come from the northern littoral of the Euxine, which is also known as the Pontic Sea. It's the body of water that gives the region the name, not the kingdom on the southern shore.

[Rad]

They come from the northern littoral of the Euxine, which is also known as the Pontic Sea. It's the body of water that gives the region the name, not the kingdom on the southern shore.

Thanks for that.

[wermez]

Pontos means hospitable, I think.

[Dargaron]

Actually, Pontos is another word for sea/ocean/large body of saltwater. The Black Sea was called the Pontos Euxeinos ("friendly sea"), supposedly as an attempt to placate the sea and make it calmer (the Black Sea is rather rough). Pontos was the part of Cappadocia that was near the sea, and eventually the "Cappadocia" part of the name dropped.

I don't remember if the Greeks applied the term Pontos to any other sea, though. IIRC, the Atlantic was Okeanos, the Mediterranean is usually referred to as a Thalassos, and I don't know about the Red Sea/Persian Gulf/Indian Ocean.

[athanaric]

The Black Sea was called the Pontos Euxeinos ("friendly sea"), supposedly as an attempt to placate the sea and make it calmer (the Black Sea is rather rough).

I've heard that, in this case, "euxeinos" was a mis-translation (or politically correct renaming, as you've intimated above) of the Old Persian (?) word axšaina meaning something like "dark" or "black". This seems logical considering the old Eurasian custom of associating diretions with colours. Thusly, the Black Sea would be the "North Sea", while the Red Sea would be the "South Sea". From a Middle Eastern perspective, that makes a lot of sense. Also, for a more modern parallel deriving from the same steppe tradition, compare the Turkish names "karadeniz" (Black Sea) and "akdeniz" (~ white, i.e. Western, Sea for the Mediterranean).

Edit: the entry on "Black Sea" in iranicaonline.org explains it more clearly.

[Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ]

I don't remember if the Greeks applied the term Pontos to any other sea, though. IIRC, the Atlantic was Okeanos, the Mediterranean is usually referred to as a Thalassos, and I don't know about the Red Sea/Persian Gulf/Indian Ocean.

As far as I know, no. Erythra(Red) Thalassa(Sea), Persikos(Persian) Kolpos(Gulf), Indikos(India) Okeanos(Ocean). The Indian one might have been regarded as sea or gulf in Antiquity, also, in some ancient sources the word Pelagos, another word for sea, is used.

[alex33]

Really enjoying those ancillaries. Can‘t wait for more news rn i‘m in a deep hayastan campaign and just had the kingdom reform. Seeing the new pontic hoplites makes me want to play another Bosphorus or try a Pontus campaign.

i read a comment of a team member some time ago that baktria will get it‘s own royal cav unit in the future. Will those be cataphracts? And i guess their model will be used as the new bodyguard unit for baktria like the Nabataean Hetairoi

[Roma_Victrix]

As far as I know, no. Erythra(Red) Thalassa(Sea), Persikos(Persian) Kolpos(Gulf), Indikos(India) Okeanos(Ocean). The Indian one might have been regarded as sea or gulf in Antiquity, also, in some ancient sources the word Pelagos, another word for sea, is used.

In the 1st-century AD Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, the "Erythra Thalassa" referred to the entire northwestern Indian Ocean. In Ptolemy's mid-2nd-century AD Geography, the Red Sea is labeled as the "Arabicus Sinus" (i.e. Arabian Gulf), while the Indian Ocean is labeled as the "Mare Indicum" or "Prasodis Mare/Prasodi Maris/Mare Prasodum" (i.e. the Green Sea). Ptolemy also considered the Gulf of Thailand and South China Sea as a mere gulf of the Indian Ocean (i.e. the Magnus Sinus). Then again, he thought the Indian Ocean was merely a larger sea than the Mediterranean that was encircled by a landmass connecting the southern tip of Africa with Southeast Asia. It is pretty clear, however, that the testimony he and Marinus gained from the sailor "Alexandros" showed that they were aware of Vietnam and southern China, a curiosity considering that the Chinese historiographic work The Book of Later Han insisted that Roman diplomats landed in Jiaozhi province in 166 AD, in what is now northern Vietnam (further south, in Oc Eo, we've found medallions dated precisely to the reigns of Marcus Aurelius and Antoninus Pius, along with other Roman goods).

[Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ]

In the 1st-century AD Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, the "Erythra Thalassa" referred to the entire northwestern Indian Ocean. In Ptolemy's mid-2nd-century AD Geography, the Red Sea is labeled as the "Arabicus Sinus" (i.e. Arabian Gulf), while the Indian Ocean is labeled as the "Mare Indicum" or "Prasodis Mare/Prasodi Maris/Mare Prasodum" (i.e. the Green Sea).

Yes, I was aware of that, but I make myself ignore those geographical blunders, that's how we get Calabria in Bruttium, instead of being south of Apulia. Perhaps the expansion of "Erythra Thalassa" happened during the early roman periond, but was the sea between Egypt and Arabia known as Arabian Gulf during the Hellenistic period, if not then I see no reason to call the water surfaces beyond modern day Red Sea "Erythra Thalassa", at least not when discussing the Hellenistic period and earlier periods.

Looking at Ptolemy's Map, I've also noticed that the sea between of Horn of Africa and Yemen is reffered as "Rubru(m) Mare", which, if I'm not mistaken, means Red Sea in Latin. Also he thought of Taprobane (Sri Lanka) being almost as large as the Indus Valley.

[alex33]

How many new units are actually planned to be in the next update?

[QuintusSertorius]

Don't know, we haven't decided on a number, it'll be however many are ready at the time we stop.

There are more finished units awaiting screenshots at the moment.

[Roma_Victrix]

Don't know, we haven't decided on a number, it'll be however many are ready at the time we stop.

There are more finished units awaiting screenshots at the moment.

I was utterly blown away when I saw the new Galatian units for the first time. It's also totally fantastic that Hellenistic factions can recruit them almost right away, well before the Thorakitai reforms (same with Illyrian Thorakitai, another unit with chainmail armor). I somehow get the feeling the new units are also going to knock my socks off. I can't wait! I could be wrong, but I imagine you guys are fleshing out the steppe unit rosters, now that Hellenistic and Italic units are basically done. The new Galatianised swordsmen are also superb heavy infantry with chainmail armor, thanks to Celtic influence in Anatolia.

[alex33]

I was utterly blown away when I saw the new Galatian units for the first time. It's also totally fantastic that Hellenistic factions can recruit them almost right away, well before the Thorakitai reforms (same with Illyrian Thorakitai, another unit with chainmail armor). I somehow get the feeling the new units are also going to knock my socks off. I can't wait! I could be wrong, but I imagine you guys are fleshing out the steppe unit rosters, now that Hellenistic and Italic units are basically done. The new Galatianised swordsmen are also superb heavy infantry with chainmail armor, thanks to Celtic influence in Anatolia.

I know that feeling! Just noticed that the skins for the bosporan heavy archers are very different for the Bosporan Kingdom and Pontos I was like omfg the freaking attention to detail. Can‘t wait for new steppe stuf and especially the skythian logades ...whatever they are. The italians are not done by a long shot! there are still 6 italic units on the way afaikr. Romans pre great marian unit kull will be very exciting in the future

[Roma_Victrix]

I know that feeling! Just noticed that the skins for the bosporan heavy archers are very different for the Bosporan Kingdom and Pontos I was like omfg the freaking attention to detail. Can‘t wait for new steppe stuf and especially the skythian logades ...whatever they are. The italians are not done by a long shot! there are still 6 italic units on the way afaikr. Romans pre great marian unit kull will be very exciting in the future

Those are basically my favorite archers in the whole game, and yes, they do look different for certain factions! The Bosporan Kingdom's version has chainmail, for instance, whereas most factions have scale armor instead for that unit. The shield designs and colors are also different for certain factions.

I'm surprised to learn the Italic units aren't done. That's cool! I don't think anything can top the Roman Pedites Extraordinarii, though. They look phenomenal. Isn't there a post-Marian Praetorian Guard unit planned? An infantry one, or was it cavalry?

[QuintusSertorius]

That unit is now called the Bosporan Logades, they're a late unit that appears on the northern shore of the Black Sea.

A decision was made to do selected parts of the various Roman/Italic rosters, rather than complete any of them a long time back. So there are still a number of regional Italic units stil to come. The Praetorian Guard unit is a an Imperial infantry unit.

[alex33]

That unit is now called the Bosporan Logades, they're a late unit that appears on the northern shore of the Black Sea.

Awesome whats their story? And what weapons and equipment will they use?

[Roma_Victrix]

That unit is now called the Bosporan Logades, they're a late unit that appears on the northern shore of the Black Sea.

A decision was made to do selected parts of the various Roman/Italic rosters, rather than complete any of them a long time back. So there are still a number of regional Italic units stil to come. The Praetorian Guard unit is a an Imperial infantry unit.

Thanks for letting us know, but loose lips sink ships, Quintus. Unfortunately you've given the Barbarians classified secret intelligence on the up-and-coming units of the Roman Empire, and that there will be Imperial Reforms after the existing Marian ones in EBII. Now they know that we know that we know that they know!