Alliances

[Memb]

What's the idea with alliances when you get backstabbed everytime.
I have played with almost all factions and my allies have always backstabbed me. It starts to piss me off. Why should I ally with anyone when it doesn't make any difference, they're hostile anyway.

[despot_of_rhodes]

Well, it depends on many factors, how the AI would behave toward you.

1. It depends on the difficulty you are playing - on H and esp. on VH campaign diff. AI has actually one primary target, - and that´s you ( "kill human player" ).

2. This happens especially after you start to share the common boarder with the AI.

3. Different factions have different winning conditions and if you are on their "list", then you should better look at this alliance as a temporary one ( i.e. you ally with Carthaginians against the Greeks to conquer Syracuse. but that´s also the goal of your so called allies. So, after you take Messana and Syrakuse, you shouldn´t be surprised, if they declare war on you ).

4. To prevent a faction, wich shares a common boarder with you, to attack you asap. you should deploy a large garrison in the boarder town or simply put a full stack in that province.

5. The battle AI and the diplo. AI don´t seem to work as a team in RTW and you should often got the situation, where you become a trade offer and in the same turn you get attacked by the faction, wich offered you trade rights. See #4 - if the AI doesn´t see any easy target, it will think twice, or at least wait long enought to get reinforcements there.

6. And last but not least: a deal is a deal, until the better one comes along. Think about it - no treaty lasts forever, some are only a fake, to attack, as soon as you moved you forces somewhere else. And it seems, that AI really follows this strategy sometimes

I hope this will help you a bit.

Edit: There is one more cunning feature of treaties and diplomacy. Making affiliates all around your main target, you can isolate them, so that the others won´t ally with your foes and engage in the war on their side, but on yours. And if you wan´t to destabilize an alliance between two factions - simply ally yourself with both of them and then declare war on you enemy - your common ally will mostly chose the side of the agressor. You will gain a new ally, your enemy will lose it, and this could isolate your primary target faction even more.

[Memb]

2. This happens especially after you start to share the common boarder with the AI.

That's my problem. When I'm fighting against an common enemy I will eventually share a common border with my ally. It's pretty stupid that they always backstab me no matter how much I have helped them. They will always backstab. So far I have seen no exceptions.

In my current game I'm playing as Macedon and allied with Seleucids. We both were fighting against the Ptolemaic Empire (or something similar ) and I had to deploy troops to Turkey because the Seleudic's were in a big trouble and couldn't do anything. When I had weakened the Ptolemaic's and taken a few territories, the Seleudics attack me. I think it's pretty stupid for them. Now they are fighting against two strong factions and have no hope of survival.

[Mister S]

3k a turn is the magic amout to prevent the AI from attacking. offer them an alliance, and as long as you pay them 3k a tunr, they won't attack you. ever. I tried it as Pontus vs the Ptolemys, and we had a very large border end they had a MASSIVE amount of money but they didn't attack me. Their 5 stack just stood there near Alexandria.

[Scutarii]

RTW diplomacy is broken, end of story. Its biased against the player hugely on harder difficulties, and essentially doesn't exist except for the odd exploit (I've gotten cities off of other factions for peace, only to be attacked a few turns later).

[Quinn Inuit]

Agreed. Diplomacy in this game is FUBAR. The problem is that the diplomacy AI doesn't communicate the section of the AI that sees a military opportunity and attacks.

[woksape]

despot of rhodes is right on. I don't think the A.I. for diplomacy is messed up its works well for what the A.I.'s overall intention is: to take out the human player. Like he stated treaties don't last forever and some are fake. I often make deals with nations that could be seen as bribery just to buy an extra turn or even a few years to make a power move on that faction or one that is allied to it.

All in all, yes it is aggravating if you try to use diplomacy as a means to end all war but thats not what the game is about; its about total destruction of all civilizations but your own, hence the name ROME: Total War.

[Memb]

Is there any diffences between Rome AI and Medieval 2 AI?
Because when I play the vanilla Medieval 2, my allies always backstab me just like in Rome but with Ultimate AI mod they won't backstab always. Of course they still backstab sometimes but not always.

[Quinn Inuit]

I think there is a little difference, especially in that the strategic AI might be slightly mod-able whereas for us it's almost un-mod-able.

I know the game is supposed to be Total War, but my ideal is more of a bellum omnium contra omnes, not bellum omnium contra _me_.

[Scutarii]

M2's AI is generally more reasonable and modifiable to an extent. One of the things CA has gotten (slightly) better at over the years...

[Maximus Lazero]

A strange feature of the A.I. I once witnessed was that it seemed to be preparing to stab me in the back. Playing as Bactria, I allied with the Ptolemies against the Seleucids. The Ptolemaic campaign was progressing well: they had conquered about a third of Anatolia, and were making inroads into Syria. Then, for no reason at all, they stopped. For many turns, they did nothing, while I had to labor on against the Seleucids and their Armenian allies. Eventually, I conquered Mesopotamia, and right as I got into Assyria, what I guessed at happened: the Ptolemies assaulted my Mesopotamian holdings, all without ever making peace with the Seleucids.
I'm guessing that the A.I. for the Egyptians simply achieved all of its goals, until I came along. Then that "kill the human player" programming kicked in, and I had to hold them off with one army...

[Sarnius]

I've played RTW (and RTR) for an age now, and completely agree that diplomacy is screwed. However, for the first time ever, in my current game, I've had two alliances going for about 50+ years, and they remain strong. I've never achieved this before.

So the story. Playing H/H. I'm Greece. I quickly withdraw from Italy and Sicily to the Greek mainland, and naturally initiate a war with the Macedons. I crush them, reducing them to two provinces. I like protectorates when I can get them, so I offer them a couple of provinces and 80k. They refuse. I take one of their last provinces, and offer it back with the original protectorate offer. They accept this time round.

A few turns later, the Illyrians ally with Macedon. I think, 'why not?', and ally with them too. Now, the Illyrians move a full stack to my border at Apollonia, and I'm convinced they'll attack me soon. 50+ turns later, and nothing. So I think hey, we'll make this interesting. I conquer Sicily from the Carthaginians and give the entire Island to Macedonia, doubling their holdings. I'm sure they'll backstab me soon. Nothing.

Then the Thracians and the Romans declare war on me and Macedon. For the first time, I've fought numerous battles alongside the Macedon AI. I can't even count the number of great victories we've shared. We're now turning the tide near Byzantium and battling hard against the Romans in Italy. It's easily the most fun Campaign game I've ever had. My alliance with the Macedons remains strong, and we're both still at peace with Illyria, despite sharing borders.

So yes, 99% of the time, the diplomacy is screwed. But at the moment it's working wonders for me.

[Capricornius]

wow, sounds like u have somethin going on there . Diplomacy for me is pointless, but i occasionally use it to bribe some large army that found itself right nxt to one of my provinces. Personally, i think going along the lines as "Never trust anyone" works better than having to waist money and time into getting some faction to "befriend" you only to have it back stab u in a most frustrating way . I have to agree with the person who said that the whole point of the game is "Total War" and not dealing with petty diplomacies.

[Capricornius]

Diplomacy is pointless - Case closed

[Sarnius]

In addition to my above note, it's now over 100 years since I initially formed my protectorate. Macedonia are still obedient to my rule and have yet to attack me. I've also crushed Numidia and made them a protectorate, which has lasted nearly 30 years, and they've yet to attack me. Illyria are still allied to me, but have moved a couple of stacks to my border, so I anticipate an attack soon.

One thing I did with my protectorates was to create various forts around their lands (at least one for every city) and just put a small garrison inside (1-2 units). Not sure if it made a difference or not.

I also purchased military access from my allies, and every now and again would move an army onto their land, as if to say try it... and see what happens. Worked with the Illyrians, at least.

[Scutarii]

You must cherish and nurture that savegame as long as possible, for this is a once in a lifetime of RTW playing opportunity! Never before has RTW diplomacy actually worked!

[pannonian]

Protectorates will last as long as they're not allied with anyone else. Once protectorate A allies with faction B, if faction B attacks you, the protectorate will break.

[Sarnius]

Protectorates will last as long as they're not allied with anyone else. Once protectorate A allies with faction B, if faction B attacks you, the protectorate will break.

True, and this did happen a couple of times. But I just restored an older save, and pre-empted the attack by attacking faction B first. Every time, Faction A (my protectorate) remained allied to me. Not sure why - they obviously favour the aggressor.

[pannonian]

True, and this did happen a couple of times. But I just restored an older save, and pre-empted the attack by attacking faction B first. Every time, Faction A (my protectorate) remained allied to me. Not sure why - they obviously favour the aggressor.

CA probably got it the wrong way round.

[Scutarii]

CA probably got it the wrong way round.

Among other things.