Question about Eastern Hillmen

[silentsam74]

In vanilla the hillmen were spear armed troops with a cavalry bonus. I noticed that they still have this even though XGM's edu describes them as being regular skirmishers. So, is this a problem with the text not mentioning a secondary spear weapon or a spear bonus that should have been removed from them?

export_descr_unit

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type east hillmen
dictionary east_hillmen ; Hillmen
category infantry
class missile
voice_type Light_1
soldier east_hillmen, 40, 0, 1
mount_effect horse +2, camel +2
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, can_sap, hardy
formation 1.6, 2, 3.2, 4, 4, square
stat_health 2, 0
stat_pri 6, 2, javelin, 60, 8, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 25 ,1.0 ; Ranged
stat_pri_attr thrown ap
stat_sec 5, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 ,0.85 ; Spear
stat_sec_attr light_spear, spear_bonus_6
stat_pri_armour 3, 6, 3, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat -1
stat_ground 2, 1, 0, -1
stat_mental 8, impetuous, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30 ; Foot
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 360, 180, 25, 50, 360
ownership pontus, armenia, slave

export_units

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{east_hillmen} Hillmen
{east_hillmen_descr}
Hillmen rush forward to pepper the enemy with javelins, and then withdraw in good order before a counter-attack can be organised. They are light infantry, equipped with javelins and small shields. As skirmishers they are not intended to hold a position in a battle line. Instead, their job is to harass and disrupt enemy units as well as screen the main force of the army.\n\nTypically these men are recruited from the hill tribes of the east, where skirmish warfare is common and men spend half the year feuding with other tribes, or stealing sheep and goats from their lowland neighbours. To outsiders, the hillmen are a wild savage people, but they are also skilled hunters, making them superb ambushers. Their skills at reading ground allow them to hide where others cannot, but their lack of regard for military formalities can make them hard to control.
{east_hillmen_descr_short}
Hillmen rush forward to pepper an enemy with javelins, and then withdraw in good order before a counter-attack can be organised.

[Dog Fart]

I think the idea is to have them as a trouble some skirmisher unit that would require more than just the common cavalry charge to route them. Pontus once had a very generic and weak roster so this skirmisher with a spear bonus helps them stay in the field a little better.

[Scutarii]

Right now, they may be skirmishers, but they are still fairly heavily armed for skirmishers, and have a spear as a secondary, so they actually fare quite well against light cav. You need to mass light cav or use some heavies to deal with them.

[silentsam74]

I think the idea is to have them as a trouble some skirmisher unit that would require more than just the common cavalry charge to route them. Pontus once had a very generic and weak roster so this skirmisher with a spear bonus helps them stay in the field a little better.

Right now, they may be skirmishers, but they are still fairly heavily armed for skirmishers, and have a spear as a secondary, so they actually fare quite well against light cav. You need to mass light cav or use some heavies to deal with them.

Oh, I understand all of this. I actually don't have a problem with it. In fact, my first "Sweet!" moment with XGM came when I saw the Sabaean and Bactrian archers that also have spears. Its just that the onscreen description of the Hillmen is quite ambiguous about just how they are supposed to be armed. The 'abilities at a glance' mentions the bonus fighting cavalry but the unit description seems to be a generic skirmisher description....Just hoping to get more clarification in future versions...

[Vae victis]

Archers with spears = Awsome!!! Spear armed archers and skirmishers can fight and defend themselves better on the battlefield. I am hesitant about using them as front line troops though because they seem to take more damage then a regular sapabara.

Has anyone had any success using many spear armed archers and skirmishers in your armies. What roles do you use them for and what tactics do you use with them?

[Scutarii]

I use them just like regular skirmishers/archers, but they're a little less vulnerable against light cav...

[Vae victis]

I see that they have a beefed up attack. Does anyone use them as front line troops?

[synthesis]

I think when Bactria first was introduced I used them extensively, even in the front line. I would keep some behind so they could keep firing.

[Scutarii]

Well, they're nice because if need be, they can plug holes in the line. Saved my butt sometimes playing as Baktria, and the increased independance they bring to the archery section of the army playing as Saba is important.

[CaesarVincens]

Hillmen were just changed from a thureophoroi type unit to a peltast type unit, so there are some leftovers, which is what I think this is.