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  1. #1

    Default Why you should be playing Lithuania

    I have played most other factions so decided to try out Lithuania out of boredom. Previously looking over the units and starting position, I passed over playing Lithuania as the units looked pretty dull and weak and the starting position is not too interesting. Boy did I make a mistake. I am now ending my campaign and it proved to be one of the best and toughest that I have played.

    Most significant to me is that Lithuania has some great units that are fun to play. The are not as weak as seem. They do not get the super armored knights and foot infantry that the catholic powers get but they get some excellent units that are very deadly if used properly, and they get three special units that are related to the type of religious shrine that you choose for your cities.

    Let me discuss them by class.

    Ranged units are first. Basically, this is the weakest class in the Lithuanian inventory. Ignoring peasant units the Liths get three decent bow and xbow units and arbys and that is about it. No handgunners, no muskets. The three advanced bow units are good but not great. The two archer unit get stakes and that helps, have decent defensive factors. Ruthianian archers go into melee with axes and that is a hidden bonus. The Lativian xbow unit is Ok with decent defense but not too powerful. The big benefit to it is that you get the xbows virtually from turn one-making it a fairly powerful early game unit and it can be recruited in both cities and castles. Basically you are not going to win in a shoot out with most other factions but they will hold their own.

    Infantry comes next. Nothing stands out here but one or two. However all of the units are decent. You get lots of good spear units which are very valuable when facing powers such as Poland who seem to like recruiting all sorts of mounted knights. The regular swordmen and regular spearmen are top notch units but don't come until you get a citadel (Lituania is slow to build up citadels) but the lower level units are fine. Most useful is the first tier infantry unit, the Nobel Sons. This unit needs a castle to recruit so comes early in the game. That is good as you will need it. It acutally is a very good unit that remains useful throughout the game. On paper, it does not look to be as good as the catholic DFK but I found it to be much better. First, like the roman legions and unlike any other units in the game, the noble son hurls a javlin before attacking. Use them just like you did in RTW (remember how?) then when they mix it up with the enemy they pull out the axes-a fine weapon in melee that halves the enemy's armor factor. They are powerful early game units and versatile flanking units when you have stronger units to put into the main line later on. In your cities you also get a fine Ducal axe unit that can fight in your main infantry line or hold the walls.

    Even more significant are two critical units that you get when you build shrines. The first and earliest to come is The followers of Perkunas. This is a light infantry unit that is fairly weak in battle but carrys the "frightens_foot" trait which affects nearby infantry. I just buy one and use it to hit the flanks of melees or to hang right behind the main battle. It is a nice little morale killer. Second and perhaps one of the least appreicated units in the game is the Giltines Choosen HI. You get this unit when you build the third level Shrine of Giltine in a city. (fairly early) Basically, this unit is the same as the JHI but also carries the frightens_foot. Hello, you get a polearm unit that will open up armor like tin foil and lower the morale of infantry units to boot and comes much earlier than the vaunted JHI. This just may be the best unit in the game.

    Next to consider is the cavalry. Once again on paper they don't look so good but in actuality they are very powerful. The first decent cavalry you get is The Ducal cavalry which is a couter to the catholic mailed knight. Not as powerful as the knight it still is the better unit IMHO because it is light cavalry and much faster and has better armor and almost as powerful. It is one of the best light cavalry units in the game-especially as it comes in early. I like the speed as when you rout an heavy cav unit or general, this unit can run them down where as your heavy units can't. Remember you kill most enemy units when they are running away.

    The second unit to come along is my fav, the Nobel Sons cav. This is an incredibly versitile unit. It is a strong axe wielding melee cav unit that just like the romans of your can hurl a javlin before the charge. Not a powerfull charge but once in melee with heavier cavalry can do damage. Best of all is that you can set this heavy unit on skirmish which is rare for a HC unit. Once again as with the Noble Sons infantry, I find myself using this unit all the time even late in the game. The next two levels of cavalry are good but no great shakes and not as good as their catholic counterparts. Spears and axes are what you use to defeat enemy cavalry, you are not going to do well charging the stronger cavalry head on. However, one of thes units the Ducal Cavalry that also hold the frightens_foot trait which gives it value beyond its stats. Those pagans must have been fierce in battle.

    Arty is weak with no late era cannons but good enough to bring down walls. No muskets but they are of limited use in this game anyways.

    So, you have a lot of excelent armor slicing axe units backed by first class spear units along with mobile versitile cavalry. Your tactics have to be different than vanilla but it makes for some fun battles. For mercs I tend to recruit German macemen and try to have one or two in my kill armies. Once you get into Hungary you can recruit Hussars and Serbian knights as well as monster bombards and monster ribaults. All will help flesh out your army.

    I gotta go but I will come back later and write about my campaign.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    All valid points, but more importantly, you should be playing Lithuania to stick it in the craw of the Abrahamic faiths.

    Jerusalem? Rome? Mecca? Medina? Nope, not holy cities to me, matey! To the sword with the lot of them!
    "For men can endure to hear others praised only so long as they can severally persuade themselves of their own ability to equal the actions recounted: when this point is passed, envy comes in and with it, incredulity." - Pericles, Funeral Oration

    "English bastards!" - the Scottish AAR!

    The Grass is ALWAYS Greener: the Dark Tale of Mordor

    Want to publish an article on any aspect of history? PM or email me at shistory@speculativehistory.co.uk, or visit http://www.speculativehistory.co.uk. if you just want to learn something new.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    yup, Lithuania have one of finest campaign in ss, different units, lots of enemies.. starts small

    i would say latvians xbows are strongest xbow you can get in game for the time you get..

    counterparts are pavise xbows, which needs third tier.. when compared to first

    first light cavalry looks poor on stats, but damn.. they are so much better than mailed knights



    giltines chosen is best unit in game, thats pretty obvious, there is no unit that can beat them 1v1 ( just go testing ) , and frightening trait is 20 times as powerfull when you have 20 armies to frighten instead of us just 1..

    you missed to mention dievas guard, best lithuanian cavalry, with frightening trait too, they have some nice stats on them too,( armor pen, too i think.. cant recall atm ) and definally kick some asses

  4. #4

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    Quote Originally Posted by Smikis View Post
    yup, Lithuania have one of finest campaign in ss, different units, lots of enemies.. starts small

    i would say latvians xbows are strongest xbow you can get in game for the time you get..

    counterparts are pavise xbows, which needs third tier.. when compared to first

    first light cavalry looks poor on stats, but damn.. they are so much better than mailed knights



    giltines chosen is best unit in game, thats pretty obvious, there is no unit that can beat them 1v1 ( just go testing ) , and frightening trait is 20 times as powerfull when you have 20 armies to frighten instead of us just 1..

    you missed to mention dievas guard, best lithuanian cavalry, with frightening trait too, they have some nice stats on them too,( armor pen, too i think.. cant recall atm ) and definally kick some asses
    Yep, just for grins I set up a quick battle Giltanes vs dismounted Gothic Knights. 120 men to each unit. Flat grassy plain. Both units charging head on. Gothics took a lead at the end of the charge even kill the Giltane general but the Giltanes fought back in melee and eventually came out on top. 26 men left to no gothics. Totally kick ass unit.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    Quote Originally Posted by crsutton View Post
    Yep, just for grins I set up a quick battle Giltanes vs dismounted Gothic Knights. 120 men to each unit. Flat grassy plain. Both units charging head on. Gothics took a lead at the end of the charge even kill the Giltane general but the Giltanes fought back in melee and eventually came out on top. 26 men left to no gothics. Totally kick ass unit.
    You should try the Khwarezm Royal Foot Guard then
    (this is with Real Recruitment and Real Combat though, so it might be different)

  6. #6

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    My favourite army combination was:

    General + 5 Noble cavalry
    14 horse archers

    Pelt the enemy with horsearchery shenanigans, then charge in with the 'frightens infantry' cavalry for a devastating win!
    "For men can endure to hear others praised only so long as they can severally persuade themselves of their own ability to equal the actions recounted: when this point is passed, envy comes in and with it, incredulity." - Pericles, Funeral Oration

    "English bastards!" - the Scottish AAR!

    The Grass is ALWAYS Greener: the Dark Tale of Mordor

    Want to publish an article on any aspect of history? PM or email me at shistory@speculativehistory.co.uk, or visit http://www.speculativehistory.co.uk. if you just want to learn something new.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    Quote Originally Posted by StaticBlack View Post
    You should try the Khwarezm Royal Foot Guard then
    (this is with Real Recruitment and Real Combat though, so it might be different)
    i just did, without rr/rc tho, it ended in 61v6 then kwarezim fled.. half of giltines chosen survived, and got heroic victory

    (both units with golden stars + weapon upgrade, no armor upgrade for kwaz as choosen dont have one )

    i doubt rc changes it that much, maybe i got lucky, you got unlucky , who knows

  8. #8

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    Quote Originally Posted by Smikis View Post
    yup, Lithuania have one of finest campaign in ss, different units, lots of enemies.. starts small

    i would say latvians xbows are strongest xbow you can get in game for the time you get..

    counterparts are pavise xbows, which needs third tier.. when compared to first

    first light cavalry looks poor on stats, but damn.. they are so much better than mailed knights



    giltines chosen is best unit in game, thats pretty obvious, there is no unit that can beat them 1v1 ( just go testing ) , and frightening trait is 20 times as powerfull when you have 20 armies to frighten instead of us just 1..

    you missed to mention dievas guard, best lithuanian cavalry, with frightening trait too, they have some nice stats on them too,( armor pen, too i think.. cant recall atm ) and definally kick some asses
    Actually it is the Lithuanian noble cavalry (from fortresses) that has the frighten enemy infantry trait, not the divas cavalry which comes from the shrine. Not sure why as you would expect it to be the shrine generated cavalry. Perhaps this is a mistake and it should be the divas cavalry.

  9. #9
    Greve Af Göteborg's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    In my current scottish campaign the lithuanians seem to really give a challenge to the Polish and the Russians , might aswell give the Lithuanians a shot then

  10. #10

  11. #11

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    Here is part II. On the campaign itself.

    It is a tough start and you have a hard time building the economy. Made even slower by the need for you to raise armies and purchase mercs to grab as many rebel provinces as possible. All of the surrounding powers are busily grabbing land. Can't understand why but you do not start with a diplomat and it is some time before you can build a city hall. So the first 15 to 20 turns you can not make alliances-only wait for other diplomats to approach you. This is very frustrating as you really need to make nice with your neighbors early in the game. Dole out the princesses and gifts and make sure once you get a diplomat that you send it straight to Rome to suck up to "you know who." This guy is just aching to go crusade upside your head and the longer you can put it off the better. Just be aware that if you go to war with any catholic faction he will start to think about launching the bic "C" on you. You really do not want to see this event until your castle at Vilnus has ballistas and it is better to be a citadel with cannon. So your best targets if you war are the Russian factions as the Pope does not give a whit for them. You also got to get ready for the Tutons who appear around turn 90 or so. One of your end game missions is to wipe them out. Amazingly in my game is that they ingored me and marched right out of my life. It is now turn 240 and they are still hoard marching somewhere unknown on the map and have not attacked any cities. I got to go find them...

    I made the mistake of getting greedy against Norway. (You have got to take some cities sooner of later) and the Pope went postal on me. This was about turn 90 or 100 turns into the game and every Christian power marched to Vilnus. I held it and beat off swarms of crusading armies but wonder if it would have been better just giving it up and then retaking it. I spent about 30or more turns fighting the crusaders and constant attacks on my perimiter by the Germans, Hungary and the Danes. It cost me all of my coin to constantly keep raising armies and I could not put a dime into building my economy for the whole time period. To make matters worse the plague hit at the end of this struggle and just about did me in. I was in the negative for a few turns there.

    Once the crusade was defeated, I had about half the game left but had much to make up. I was beginning to doubt I could pull off the 70 cities victory conditon.

    No I am cruising and really enjoying the unique abilities of my Lithuanian units. Give it a try.

  12. #12
    Barser's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    Gotta love lithuania. Pagan power for the win. I also remember someone mentioning that there units where bigger than regular unitsin the game

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    Imperial Guard (elite, guard) have 150 men in RR/RC, Giltines Chosen (superior, fanatic) have 120. Otherwise, the main difference is that the Guard have 4 better defense, a better heat value, and they attack slightly faster.
    Last edited by Point Blank; April 07, 2009 at 10:39 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    Imperial Guard (elite, guard) have 150 men in RR/RC, Giltines Chosen (superior, fanatic) have 120. Otherwise, the main difference is that the Guard have 4 better defense, a better heat value, and they attack slightly faster.
    and why exactly that was done.. oh just dont say ' giltines chosen is much earlier unit " cuz its its not.. not with town lvls lithuania have to start with

    chosen should been elite, as its best lithuanian infantry

  15. #15

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    I haven't played as the Khwarezm in the main campaign, but I wouldn't be suprised if the strength of the unit is balanced with a very high upkeep, at least a 3 turn recruitment time and a recruitment pool that takes 13+ turns to replenish from a highest tier city/castle building (you never know, they might only be recruitable from the capitol due to their status as the ruling members guard). Also, it might take 200 or so turns to unlock them due to the armour they wear. Funny thing is, at the end of the day, a good cavalry charge would still sort them out =P

  16. #16

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    Well I ran some tests tonight. This was with vanilla 6.1 with no mods.

    First test was the Gilitane Choosen vs the Kwaerazamian Royal Foot Guards. Unit size 120, grassy plain. First two battles I was GCI vs KRF AI. I did nothing but point the at the KRF and then clicked run when the enemy started running. Gilitane Choosen won both battles. Then I switched sides and took the KRF against the GCI AI. Gilitanes came out on top in two of three battles. The third I kind of ignored as the Gilitane AI kept pulling back to recharge, but never really got their act together in time. It was close though.

    Usually the Gilitanes had about 25 to 30 men left at the end. Really took control half way through the battle. The big difference is when the Gilitane leader died (three out of four times) the Gilitanes kept fighting and won. However when the KRF leader died then the KRF troops broke when they hit about 30 to 25 men left. If the KRF leader lived they fought to the end but still lost. This must be the edge that the "frighten infanty trait" give. Given the Gilitanes come much, much earlier and that they seem to best the KRF most all the time, I would say they are superior and far more valuable in the game. GCI fights in three rank lines and the KRF fights in four. I changed the KRF to three ranks two times and they still lost.

    Next I tried Dismounted Noble Infantry against their counterparts the Catholic DFK. Interesting fight as they are so different. When left alone the DFK advances and charges while the Noble Infantry hurls javlins but is hit before they can charge. The javlin throw is fun to watch as it knocks out 15 to 20 knights and disorders the charge. However when the DFK get into melee they get the charge advantage and will by a hair. A little micro managment where I clicked the Noble Infantry into the charge after the javlin toss and the battles were close to even. Still the DFKs have the slight edge once locked in melee. However, the javlins IMHO make the Noble infantry much more useful so in the end I give them the edge. One problems with these unit on unit tests is that generally the first side to lose the captain is the side that goes down. You really have to do lots of tests.

    Last I tried the Mounted Nobles against their counterparts, mailed and feudal knights. If you just click and point the mounted nobles get hit by the charge before they can hurl more than a few javlins so it is hard to test them. However against the mailed knights they were far superior, taking the charge and then eating them up in melee. Fudal knights were another story, charging into the mounted nobles and taking them out with ease in melee.

    Once again, it is hard to test both the dismounted and mobile nobles because of their special skills, the javlins. If managed and maneuvered in skirmish mode the mounted nobles can overcome the fudal knights but in the course of a large battle it is hard to micro manage one or two units. Still if either unit gets on the flank of any unit even a general, they will slice them up with the javlins and are plenty strong in melee if needed in the front lines.

    Plus you got the Gilitanes Choosen to use as your shock troops and they are nasty.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    Quote Originally Posted by Smikis View Post
    and why exactly that was done.. oh just dont say ' giltines chosen is much earlier unit " cuz its its not.. not with town lvls lithuania have to start with

    chosen should been elite, as its best lithuanian infantry
    That's a fair point, maybe they should be bumped to elite.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    Something needs to be done about the Followers of Perkanus, as they are totally useless, especially compared with the Chosen...
    "For men can endure to hear others praised only so long as they can severally persuade themselves of their own ability to equal the actions recounted: when this point is passed, envy comes in and with it, incredulity." - Pericles, Funeral Oration

    "English bastards!" - the Scottish AAR!

    The Grass is ALWAYS Greener: the Dark Tale of Mordor

    Want to publish an article on any aspect of history? PM or email me at shistory@speculativehistory.co.uk, or visit http://www.speculativehistory.co.uk. if you just want to learn something new.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    Quote Originally Posted by Sargon_of_Akkad View Post
    Something needs to be done about the Followers of Perkanus, as they are totally useless, especially compared with the Chosen...
    well, they can be gotten twice as fast, they cost less, and they still pwn in melee a bit , obviously, most will go with chosen

    no matter how you look, there apart novgorod, are no big towns anywhere near where lithuania starts, so by the time you have town large enough for chosen , you either control half europe, or already took novgorod, and training them there.. but thats usually slow.. as even without rr/rc they grow slow.. and your already fighting somewhere in hungary, so getting them across europe takes a while

  20. #20

    Default Re: Why you should be playing Lithuania

    Quote Originally Posted by Sargon_of_Akkad View Post
    Something needs to be done about the Followers of Perkanus, as they are totally useless, especially compared with the Chosen...

    Well, not exactly. They come extremely early in the game. You get them with the first level temple. So you are using them to back up troops that are fighting other early level troops who generally have low morale, such as spearmen, peasant archers and mounted sargents, and that makes them very powerful unit to have early in the game. Later in the game you don't need them as you have the Divas cavalry and the Gilitane Choosen.

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