Why did the South Secede from the Union? Civil War discussion

[sabaku_no_gaara]

It's funny, how when the 13 colonies rebelled and wanted liberty and all it was noble, but when it's about the civil war, you never read about the south wanting the liberty to decide for themselves and all you hear is: slavery bad south slavery slavery slavery, when if you think of it, the North became the opressive British and the South became the 13 colonies fighting for their ideal of liberty

[Selifator]

Which was one-sided and oppressed black people.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

Still, seeing how the us is born from the ideal of liberty and self gouverment, it's odd they didn't allow the south to have their liberty and self gouverment, it's hypocritical, I don't think the politicians cared for the slaves, that was just a rally cry and justification

[Nikos]

Still, seeing how the us is born from the ideal of liberty and self gouverment, it's odd they didn't allow the south to have their liberty and self gouverment, it's hypocritical, I don't think the politicians cared for the slaves, that was just a rally cry and justification

The Slaves wouldn't have Liberty.

[Grimstoned]

It's funny, how when the 13 colonies rebelled and wanted liberty and all it was noble, but when it's about the civil war, you never read about the south wanting the liberty to decide for themselves and all you hear is: slavery bad south slavery slavery slavery, when if you think of it, the North became the opressive British and the South became the 13 colonies fighting for their ideal of liberty

The North unlike the British crushed the rebels. Lincoln defended the Constitution like he swore to. Very Noble. And yeah slavery is bad and the the Southern ideal of liberty was wrong. United we stand... and All men are created equal and all that stuff

So its really Not that funny and totally different.

[Confederate Jeb]

The North unlike the British crushed the rebels. Lincoln defended the Constitution like he swore to. Very Noble. And yeah slavery is bad and the the Southern ideal of liberty was wrong. United we stand... and All men are created equal and all that stuff

Judging from this paragraph you do not understand American history at all.

IndianaJoe has it right. In fact, during the War of 1812 and many times around then New York and many other Yankee states threatened to leave the Union. No one thought it was insane back then, because three of the original 13 states had it written in their constitutions the ability to leave the US. Just more hypocritical crap from the Yankees.


And yes my name is Confederate Jeb for a reason.

EDIT: Of course slavery is bad, but once again everyone sees this through the eyes of Yankee propaganda, as that is what the history books teach. A good book, written by a Boston minister who travelled and lived in the South for three months , sets the facts straight. it's called A Southside View of Slavery or Three Months at the South in 1854.

[Grimstoned]

I understand fine. Slavery was a main issue throughout.

It was how the South supported itself. I lived in Alabama in the early 90's and took ALBAMA Basic history... thats what the text book said. I know the South had other reasons like rail road and whatnot . But slavery was it. It was the main organizer for the confederacy.



"I, Abraham Lincoln, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

"against all enemies, both foreign and DOMESTiIC (my emphasis).

As commander and chief, he was able to apply military action to put down insurrection. George Washington gave precedence for his actions (without Congressional action) to suppress the Whiskey Rebellion.

[IndianaJoe]

@Grimstoned

SLAVERY WAS NOT THE ISSUE!!

secession is NOT forbidden by the constitution, therefore, the Confederates were not rebelling, the were SECEDING i.e dissolving the union between themselves and the rest of the U.S slavery was a non factor in the begining because only people like John Brown cared enough to KILL anyone over it. there were northeners helping the slaves such as the underground railroad, but it was not a main issue.

(most southerners DIDN'T own slaves! and some northerners (like U.S Grant) did) Robert E Lee was opposed to slavery.

imagine whose side they would be on if it was about slavery...

[Grimstoned]

I am not going to argue semantics .He thought he was defending it.... and the South burned.

Dred Scott case, John Brown's raid at Harpers Ferry, Southerners thought Lincoln was a firebrand abolitionist. Now how the was this not about slavery?



Madison's words at the drafting of the constitution; "great as the evil (slavery) is, a dismemberment of the union would be worse".

[no0]

I am not going to argue semantics .He thought he was defending it.... and the South burned.

Dred Scott case, John Brown's raid at Harpers Ferry, Southerners thought Lincoln was a firebrand abolitionist. Now how the was this not about slavery?



Madison's words at the drafting of the constitution; "great as the evil (slavery) is, a dismemberment of the union would be worse".

It really wasn't about slavery, Abraham Lincoln hated blacks. People in the north owned slaves to, Abraham Lincoln only freed SOUTHERN slaves to cripple the souths war effort. And I have no doubts that had the confederacy survived slavery would have died of natural causes eventually.

[Antigenes]

@Grimstoned

SLAVERY WAS NOT THE ISSUE!!

secession is NOT forbidden by the constitution, therefore, the Confederates were not rebelling, the were SECEDING i.e dissolving the union between themselves and the rest of the U.S slavery was a non factor in the begining because only people like John Brown cared enough to KILL anyone over it. there were northeners helping the slaves such as the underground railroad, but it was not a main issue.

(most southerners DIDN'T own slaves! and some northerners (like U.S Grant) did) Robert E Lee was opposed to slavery.

imagine whose side they would be on if it was about slavery...

That's a nice picture you paint there, and it may actually have had a legal basis if the secessionist governments didn't try to seize federal property in a violent manner, making them criminals regardless.

[patrick1191]

Lincoln said himself that if he could save the union by allowing slavery, he would. But he then later went balls to the wall and said no slavery lets kick the southerns asses

[Trey]

I understand fine. Slavery was a main issue throughout.

Please, don't make me beat you with my research paper.

If it was so important, why did it take Lincoln almost 3 years to issue the Emancipation Proclamation?

If it was about slaves, why did Union states such as Missouri have slaves? It was about states rights. Yes, the argument was over slaves. However, slaves were not the point. It was an issue over the power of the federal government to dictate legislature to states.

[Winter]

Please, don't make me beat you with my research paper.

If it was so important, why did it take Lincoln almost 3 years to issue the Emancipation Proclamation?

If it was about slaves, why did Union states such as Missouri have slaves? It was about states rights. Yes, the argument was over slaves. However, slaves were not the point. It was an issue over the power of the federal government to dictate legislature to states.

Lincoln was a pragmatist more than an idealist. He stated that saving the Union was his primary goal, and that slavery would take a back seat to keeping the Union intact. Do you really think he was about to risk holding on to border slave states in the middle of a war the north was loosing?

The reason he waited so long to officially issue the proclamation is that it would not have much weight behind it at the beginning of the war. Keep in mind, the Confederacy at the outset was actually winning in many ways.

I don't understand this revisionist "states rights" thing southerners go on about these days. They certainly did not have any problem with federal government actions like the Dred Scott decision or the Fugitive Slave laws, but when it comes to taking their slaves away, then all of a sudden their rights are violated...You should also keep in mind that South Carolina agreed with Jackson's philosophy that states could not secede when they threatened to do so under his administration, when he threatened to hang the conspirators as traitors. Their backing down can be seen as acceptance that states may not secede.

[André Masséna]

ITs not a cop out its the truth. Lincoln campaigned on not allowing any further expansion of slavery the sotuh seceeded because they couldn't stad to have a president who wouldn't just agree with them.

Or they couldn't stand that they had a President who said to all that he was going to trample the right of a state to dictate what went on in their own boarders.

Yes four did but the entire south did not seceed because of the raising of the army did they Andre?

No, the originals seceded for the reasons above.

Also secession over losing an election is probably one of the worst reason for seceding. Fallowed by claiming your doing it because the majority are"oppressing*" the minority while oppressing a minority of your own makes for a funny argument.

In your opinion, what is a good reason for secession?

[Kiljan Arslan]

The way I see it is that the south had nothing to complain about they left because they lost an election. They did not leave like the thirteen did which was for over twelve years of misrule where they had no word in how they would be governed.

Indiy yes it was they left because Lincoln promised to not allow expansion of slavery into the territories.

[Lord de Lyonesse]

the North became the opressive British and the South became the 13 colonies fighting for their ideal of liberty

Lol this is stupid, the south used slavery because it was not sufficently advanced to have industry growth. They still relied on slaves picking cotton, The British were not oppressive, they had abollished slavery in 1807 and banned it throughout her empire in 1838 so hardly 'oppressive'.

Plus many of the calls for liberty in the American civil war against the Brits was made by land grabbing aristocrats and expansionists, many normal people just wanted to live there lives peacefully..

[Kiljan Arslan]

Really tthen why did the CSA constitution enshrined slavery if it wasn't about slavery. Yes Lincoln was no fan of Blacks but most people weren't in those days.

[no0]

Really tthen why did the CSA constitution enshrined slavery if it wasn't about slavery. Yes Lincoln was no fan of Blacks but most people weren't in those days.

Just because the confederate constitution upheld slavery doesn't mean the war was entirely about it. Before the war even started the North wasn't trying to take away southern slaves, Lincoln only did that towards the end of the war to cripple the souths war effort. Constitutions can be amended and slavery would have died eventually. I believe if the south hadn't tryed to secede slavary would have lasted far longer then it did.

[Lord de Lyonesse]

yes i knopw many people were not half as tolerant or even just open minded as we are now but come on there is some difference between disliking black people and not allowing them to vote in your country.

America can only justly say it alllowed universal suffrage to all black people since 1955 with the brown vs board of education bill, whereas Britiain hadn't discriminated ever as it hadnt had a large black population and wasnt seen as a threat etc..