OMG getting butchered in Italia

[Emporor Antonius Anubi Sextus]

Hello everybody

I've been playing TW since Shogun and thought I was good. Always play on vh/vh and get massive kdr's like 20:1......

Then came SPQR.....

I was so excited too see the legions already deployed in the same formation I've been using for years with Hastati out front and Principes in the back, was all excited.

Then the battle started......

Hannibal is butchering my legions. The only way I can take down a Cartheginian army is too go at them 2 legions at once and let the AI take control of one, at which point the AI promptly charges the general into the front rank and gets him killed.

Same thing with the Guals. They pin down my legion and out flank them with the massive numbers, Triaria reserves do no good, they are overwhelmed and I still get out flanked.

I really love the large formations, it makes it so much more realistic. No more breaking off and regrouping. Once battle is committed its committed and that's it till one sides dead. Just like real ancient battles. The cohorts in vannilla are still small enough too manuever around and regroup after the lines crash.....

I read Luckies walkthrough and those are the kinds of ratio's im usta in RTR and vanilla. A single legion taking hords of celts with negligible casualties. Reading the walkthroughs the tactics seem pretty much the same.

I just don't see how its done in SPQR. My legions are getting gutted even in victory.

Will force charging the cohorts and skipping the pila attack help? I usually let them throw all their pila's before charging. Is this a mistake in SPQR and absorbing the barbarian charges?

I tried waiting for the 1st line to waver b4 committing the 2nd line. I've tried charging them both at once. It doesn't seem too matter. I keep getting butchered.

Other than arranging the lines alot farther from the enemy than in vanilla or RTR what else needs too be done too maitain the high KDR?

The walk throughs are just sayin too do the same thing I've been doin for years and the results keep endin up the same, pharyic victories and utter defeat.....

Yes ur mod has humbled the slayer of celts and enslaver of the east.....

What am i doin wrong?

thx

[Templar Knight]

did you put battle difficulty on very hard?

[KittySN]

If "Luckies" refers to mine, I've yet to include tactics primarily because I wanted to include some plans like Hesus has done in his 15 turn guide and that takes time. (Sorry!) Those battles where I'm attacking a stack of enemies sometimes took up to 45 minutes of intimidating, skirmishing, retreating and repositioning before the lines actually clashed. A common approach I use, frivolously portrayed in a bloody quick battle, is the following:


Hastati(Red) Princepes(Dark Red) Triarii(Purple) Velites(Blue) Slingers(Yellow) Equites(Brown) General(Green)

- Everything is on defend positions.
- All 3 lines of infantry are tight formation and cramped together. Fire at will for my infantry depends on the situation to prevent wasting that powerful missile attack on 1 or 2 bold units. My Hastati usually have it on though being they'll engage the enemy first.
- Velites and slingers will not skirmish and have fire at will off. When I want to break a unit, the velites are an excellent resource! They can also ease pressure off the flanks if you're getting overwhelmed or better: focus all throws on a nearby general's bodyguard! Slingers on the other hand can either move out around the flanks slightly while guarded by cavalry, and focus on the side/rear of the enemy attacking your flanks. Slingers can also throw to opposite corners, thus giving you an inside formation flank attack if necessary. You'll take some casualties from friendly fire, but if you do it right, it should be minimal.
- Goal: Let the enemy swamp your formation a little, most likely with a arc around yours, then crack one side with your velites, slingers and pincer charge your Equites. Once your enemy is breaking, charge the general in the fray too for moral penalties. Timing is crucial because you want to ride the wave of routs from one end to the other! You might crack both sides at the same time if you're attentive and frisky, but it's unlikely. When most of the enemy does rout, make half the infantry pursue while the other half breaks and pursues any other nearby enemies. You do not want them to break and turn around to attack you again while your formation is disrupted! Keeping allies chasing after will keep the masses routed. You should win the battle shortly after.
- Note: Fighting those with elephants is another story! (Can't write much right now.) Most of my tactics however remain the same, just with different priorities. It's more so that Carthage starts with crazily experienced, powerful armies, so you're going to take casualties. This is why I like to bottle Carthage up on the streets rather than fight them in an environment which suits them. You'll have "earth" in your favor. Sun Tzu basic advice.

[Emporor Antonius Anubi Sextus]

Yeah I put the battle on VH.

Sry i thought the link said luckies guide

Everything you say sounds pretty solid, it works just fine for me in RTR.

I think maybe the problem Im having is that im not dancing with them. Just linin up the column and having at it.

These big units seem too take alot longer too form up and reposition. Guess that's just gonna take some getting usta.

So by skirmish you mean your drawin off units and taking them out peicemeal?

thx again

[Templar Knight]

Yeah I put the battle on VH.

thats your problem, never ever put the battles on vh difficulty in SPQR or you will be destroyed always play on m/m campaign

[KittySN]

thats your problem, never ever put the battles on vh difficulty in SPQR or you will be destroyed always play on m/m campaign

I still disagree with this!

[Hesus de bodemloze]

Originally Posted by Templar Knight thats your problem, never ever put the battles on vh difficulty in SPQR or you will be destroyed always play on m/m campaign

I still disagree with this!

wait till your campaign advances, you will cry and say if i just had listen to the other members thy where right when thy told me not to play on VH.

[Raglan]

this mod was designed for the medium/medium settings - we're yet to have a successful campaign at harder levels! people keep trying though - i'd recommend changing to m/m and giving hesus' guide a try it's much easier than lucky's the first time round (though having restarted my camapign recently i can say that lucky has a v. good guide if your able to follow it)

also so you know ALL troops now have 2 hit pionts so this means that vanila style hit and run/blitzkrieg tactics won't work

[czePowerslave]

this mod was designed for the medium/medium settings - we're yet to have a successful campaign at harder levels! people keep trying though - i'd recommend changing to m/m and giving hesus' guide a try it's much easier than lucky's the first time round (though having restarted my camapign recently i can say that lucky has a v. good guide if your able to follow it)

also so you know ALL troops now have 2 hit pionts so this means that vanila style hit and run/blitzkrieg tactics won't work

Remember that higher difficulties actually do not really enhance AI, just boost economics, plus the VH in battle is broken actually.

[Emporor Antonius Anubi Sextus]

Cool thx for the nfo.

That was a hell of an experience taking hannibal with 2 legions and watching his lacky completely rout the same 2 legions by holdin off one with 160 horse and 300 foot while he annihilated the legion i controled then turned around and anhilated the other legion.....

yeah that hurt.

imma try m/m

thx.

[Raglan]

lol - welcome to SPQR

[Hesus de bodemloze]

Check the SPQR index for some useful threads. And play the game on M/M with script and house rules. You will be on a trip of joy and pain.

[Emporor Antonius Anubi Sextus]

yep that seems too help, finally won one without 2 legions but is was still a 3:1 kdr which isn't high enough for sustaining the campaign....lost my general too "freindly" javelin fire.

there really isn't much forgiveness. You must see three minutes into the future. There aint much correcting mistakes.

[saienga]

It's an extremely tactical game.

[Hesus de bodemloze]

Best challenge you ever will get with a RomeTW mod.

[Emporor Antonius Anubi Sextus]

the only mod where the computer has even been a challenge, everything else was just cushy point and click empire building.

I haven't been trounced like this since the Shogun where late game the AI would just smash stack after stack, in the same battle, into you and eat your there-from-the-begining elite front line troops like popcorn under shear weight of numbers

[Raglan]

the only mod where the computer has even been a challenge, everything else was just cushy point and click empire building.

I haven't been trounced like this since the Shogun where late game the AI would just smash stack after stack, in the same battle, into you and eat your there-from-the-begining elite front line troops like popcorn under shear weight of numbers

andthe great thing is that in SPQR the AI is capable of doing this from the beginning!

[Emporor Antonius Anubi Sextus]

yeah ns

I started off with kittys turn one save, it suits my style of play, and that sneaky gual bastard in the north actually backed himself into a corner on the top of a hill (as oppossed too charging full steam ahead and steam rolling me on VH)....

Having lost count of the battles over the years the AI has NEVER in ANY other mod backed itself into the courner too cover its flank, maybe its just an accident cause the corner happens too intersect the only high ground and the AI seeks the high ground.....

Frakin skynet knows it wouldn't stand a chance down on the plane.... the machine is learning... dont tell shara conner she might boom it

[KittySN]

If the AI is on the defensive, it'll instantly seek any position to reflect that. In that battle, Gaul will stay put too so long as you're lines are tight and strong, and unless you assault with infantry. If you cramp them in the corner enough, your slingers can safely do a ton of damage from their unshielded flank, particularly to the cavalry. Freeing up your cavalry from opposition allows for a nice mass rout when you do collide!

[Valerius Tiberius]

great to see some new people, still enjoying SPQR TW and getting butchered by Carthaginians and Gauls (what? you haven't met any Gauls yet? )
Have fun all

Valerius Tiberius