Easy/stupid way to get territories

**Laza_Car** · April 03, 2009, 04:22 AM

I'm playing as United Provinces on M/M... I've just conquered France and threw them out of the game. After two turns Spain (who I have the worst relationship with) offered me Naples, Lombardy, Sardinia, Florida and New Mexico + 1000 cash for France... I was thinking "I'm gonna accept this, and win the France back in the same turn (I had almost 2 full stacks in Paris) and try to get peace with Spain"... and it worked! My troops withdraw to Flanders and I just threw them back to empty Paris and won it back. Just after that I managed to get a peace with Spain, for free.

Few turns afterwards Spain offered me almost all of their Carribean colonies for France, but I refused... it's just stupid (aside that it's not historically correct).

This means that you can just fill a region with your troops, "trade" it with other nation and just win them back immidietely afterwards. It's stupid, right? Is this cheating?

**Von Kickyourass** · April 03, 2009, 04:26 AM

no! when you think about it it's a perfectly good way to gain territory.
Also i'm pretty sure lots of nations have stabbed each other in the back in the past.

**Laza_Car** · April 03, 2009, 04:41 AM

Originally Posted by absolute loser

no! when you think about it it's a perfectly good way to gain territory.
Also i'm pretty sure lots of nations have stabbed each other in the back in the past.

Yes, but not in this way. There were only protectorate/colonies exchanges and changing the ingerencies over them (like in the period before WWII). I don't know about a single case like this in history, that any nation gave some territory to some other country and than occupied it back. That nation would probably suffer dearly, no other nation would want to have any diplomatic relationship with it. There would probably be some international conference that would order that nation to withdraw.

**Skeleton Of The West** · April 03, 2009, 04:59 AM

I consider it cheating, because that you took avanage of an AI fault. We try to make the game realistic, and your case is not, although it is funny to cheat the AI like that.

The AI tries a lot of times to exchange regions with you, sometimes its beneficial for them, and sometimes it is a weird proposal the barely gives something to the AI, which is the case here.

**daniu** · April 03, 2009, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by Skeleton Of The West

I consider it cheating, because that you took avanage of an AI fault.

But isn't taking advantage of the opponent's mistakes one of the foundations of any strategy?

Being polemic here, of course, but (sometimes?) it's hard to draw a line between "that's a genuine, proper mistake I'll take advantage of" and "a human player would not have done that so I'm going to ignore that".
I'm a very "clean" player too, so I'll use every opportunity. If not for myself, then for the sake of my nation

Originally Posted by Skeleton Of The West

sometimes it is a weird proposal the barely gives something to the AI, which is the case here.

Not quite: France is a very rich province. I think the AI's measurement of a province's value is the region's wealth. If you add the values for the offered provinces, they should end up less than the sum of the demanded.

It's funny how ETW is so buggy that everything the AI does is considered a bug now... most things are not bugs, just stupid.
Programming an AI is very hard; AI stands for "Artificial Intelligence", not "Advanced Intelligence"

**Laza_Car** · April 03, 2009, 05:11 AM

Yup, thought so! Not gonna use it anymore though. Is there a way to remove this as a possability? Like, when you give a territory to some other nation your garrisoning troops go back to your capital, or something like that. I mean, I'm probably not the only one that did this, and people could exploit it. So it probably can be considered a bug.

I'm a very "clean" player, so I'm generaly against stuff like this...

**Guvnor1990** · April 03, 2009, 05:29 AM

I was stupid enough to fall for this late one night, haha. I bought Lombardy off of Spain, only to have them invade the very next turn when I had no troops stationed there. I forgot to send an army down to move in lol.

**Skeleton Of The West** · April 03, 2009, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Laza_Car

Yup, thought so! Not gonna use it anymore though. Is there a way to remove this as a possability? Like, when you give a territory to some other nation your garrisoning troops go back to your capital, or something like that. I mean, I'm probably not the only one that did this, and people could exploit it. So it probably can be considered a bug.

I'm a very "clean" player, so I'm generaly against stuff like this...

I dont know if you can send your garrison army to your capital, at least I did not see any guides how to mod it.

Originally Posted by daniu

But isn't taking advantage of the opponent's mistakes one of the foundations of any strategy?

Being polemic here, of course, but (sometimes?) it's hard to draw a line between "that's a genuine, proper mistake I'll take advantage of" and "a human player would not have done that so I'm going to ignore that".
I'm a very "clean" player too, so I'll use every opportunity. If not for myself, then for the sake of my nation

It is true, that in war you need to take advantage when the enemy makes a mistake. In my opinion, it is a fault of the AI, that sometimes he cant get to the right decision, and has not a brain like a human player. I did not say that the AI needs to be perfect, I just said that sometimes its mistakes are too big, and unfair for him, so you sould let it pass, but thats me.

Originally Posted by daniu

Not quite: France is a very rich province. I think the AI's measurement of a province's value is the region's wealth. If you add the values for the offered provinces, they should end up less than the sum of the demanded.

It's funny how ETW is so buggy that everything the AI does is considered a bug now... most things are not bugs, just stupid.
Programming an AI is very hard; AI stands for "Artificial Intelligence", not "Advanced Intelligence"

Yes, I agree that France is a rich region, but it is much more worth to have Naples, Normandy, Sardinia, Florida, New mexico, and 1000 money, especially when you play a faction that has territories in both America and Europe, like United Provinces.

Originally Posted by Guvnor1990

I was stupid enough to fall for this late one night, haha. I bought Lombardy off of Spain, only to have them invade the very next turn when I had no troops stationed there. I forgot to send an army down to move in lol.

Haha

.

**Bloodzen** · April 03, 2009, 06:18 AM

Haha this happened to me before,but I didnt want to have to bother taking care of all those regions so I gave them to my protocrate Ireland so I would get half of the money and than just took back France...

**burden010** · April 03, 2009, 06:37 AM

I think here that the unrealistic thing is that Spain agreed to the peace treaty after you stabbed them in the back!

**Laza_Car** · April 03, 2009, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by burden010

I think here that the unrealistic thing is that Spain agreed to the peace treaty after you stabbed them in the back!

Spaniards always accept the peace in my game (well twice, when I took Flanders and after this France incident), maybe because I'm the most powerful nation... but Central Italy refused it for some reason, had to fight them for Naples, and it ended in me winning Rome.

I dunno, I'm a "blietzkrieger", make a huge army, take the region and ask for peace. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

In my games I had no problems with making peace with France and Spain, but Austria demanded money. Also, I demolished Venice, and they're left with Greece, and yet they still don't wanna make a peace. No logic there...

I'm gonna rise the difficulty for my next game.

**caralampio** · April 03, 2009, 08:27 AM

I just wish they would stop asking after you turn down their territorial exchange proposals. In my current game France has made me the same exchange proposal about 40 times I think.

**burden010** · April 03, 2009, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by caralampio

I just wish they would stop asking after you turn down their territorial exchange proposals. In my current game France has made me the same exchange proposal about 40 times I think.

Ha! So just do it and take the territory back, serves them right for being annoying!

**MrOsterman** · April 03, 2009, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by caralampio

I just wish they would stop asking after you turn down their territorial exchange proposals. In my current game France has made me the same exchange proposal about 40 times I think.

Interestingly enough the offers usually suck. As Prussia I've had Poland offer me East Prussia for Austria, Croatia, and Hungry.

Uh... you want me to take one relatively unimproved territory for 3 that I've poured a ton of money into? I think not.

Not that it matters. I am raising a grand army that will capture 4 different Polish territories in the same turn then I'll demand peace or the Poles will face the armies converging on the few they have left... just a few more years of build up.

Mr.O

**nimoto** · April 03, 2009, 09:48 AM

I'm UP and Britain traded me Newfoundland and 1000 for the Inuit territory just North and West of that (but East of Rupert's land). The next turn (and every turn since) they've tried to trade back...

**Zenn** · April 03, 2009, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Laza_Car

Spaniards always accept the peace in my game (well twice, when I took Flanders and after this France incident), maybe because I'm the most powerful nation... but Central Italy refused it for some reason, had to fight them for Naples, and it ended in me winning Rome.

I dunno, I'm a "blietzkrieger", make a huge army, take the region and ask for peace. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

In my games I had no problems with making peace with France and Spain, but Austria demanded money. Also, I demolished Venice, and they're left with Greece, and yet they still don't wanna make a peace. No logic there...

I'm gonna rise the difficulty for my next game.

Im amazed, Spain refuses every peace proposal I make. No matter how many times I defeat them! (I'm playing as the United Provinces)

P.S I even destroyed their only allies - France just to give them a weaker position and still they refused...

**Laza_Car** · April 03, 2009, 09:49 AM

AI is seriously faulty in the diplomacy departmant. Also, (a bit of off-topic) when you offer trade agreement to some small fraction of 1-3 territories, they ask for lots of money (Persia asked for 5900). Why? I mean, they need that trade agreement more than I do. And also, most of the time they won't even negotiate.

... also, just to mention technology trade (if any) here.

**pandoursbox** · April 03, 2009, 07:16 PM

My first order of business in a France long campaign was to trade 2 of my american possessions near the great lakes to the UP for Dutch Guyana, and the 2 on the Atlantic for Cuba. Worked out pretty nice.

**Skeleton Of The West** · April 04, 2009, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by caralampio

I just wish they would stop asking after you turn down their territorial exchange proposals. In my current game France has made me the same exchange proposal about 40 times I think.

Its really annoying, but I am playing in DARHMOD, and its still happening, but less.

Originally Posted by Laza_Car

also, just to mention technology trade (if any) here.

I think I saw a thread that people said technology trade that the player offer is not working. Sometimes the AI propose to you some techs when he wants to trade cities usually.