A question about 32-bit\64-bit and problems.

**Modestus** · April 02, 2009, 02:53 AM

I have no expertise in these matters so could any reply as far as possible be in layman terms.

My understanding so far about Empires is that besides your common garden bugs CA did not utilise 64-bit safe coding when programming the game engine. This means as far as I can tell that if your program language is C++ and you are porting this over for 64-bit operating systems you could have issues.

That the rigorous testing of your code during development may not pick up on problems that could arise in a 64-bit environment, 64-bit safe coding has a regime in place that could prevent this.

For example I came across this …...

Low-quality code often contains magic numbers, the mere presence of whose is dangerous. During the migration of the code on the 64-bit platform these magic numbers may make the code inefficient if they participate in calculation of address, objects size or bit operations.

Now a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and I don't know if CA should have anticipated this or if this is just part of a general transition from 32-bit to 64-bit operating systems that we must all go through.

Anyhow is there anyone out there that can perhaps shed a little light on such problems.

My system is a 64-bit and the feeling I have when playing Empires is not one of random game bugs but that the game is struggling to even work on my system full stop.

When you mouse click on the campaign map you may get a slight delay, normally I would simply consider this to be a bug and dismiss it, but I am now wondering is it more related to the game code itself trying to figure out what this mouse click means on a 64-bit operating system.

**ust** · April 03, 2009, 12:36 AM

I have no clue what so ever about your question but I would really like to know the answer - due to the fact that I also use Vista 64bit.

**l33tl4m3r** · April 03, 2009, 01:02 AM

Not exactly an answer, but I thought this might help folks out.

http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/5709

**Mohamad** · April 03, 2009, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Modestus

When you mouse click on the campaign map you may get a slight delay, normally I would simply consider this to be a bug and dismiss it, but I am now wondering is it more related to the game code itself trying to figure out what this mouse click means on a 64-bit operating system.

i do experience the delay from time to time here

**Modestus** · April 03, 2009, 02:20 AM

Well I was hoping that someone could explain a little, mind you it seems so technical perhaps someone does not want to bore the pants off everyone.

The reason I would like some knowledge and this is only pure speculation is that Empires seems more than just unfinished it feels and the best word I can use is culled.

I mentioned in another thread why I thought large city maps had been removed from the game admittedly the rather sparse evidence for this was the way maps where being reused for interceptions and sieges but also perhaps the fact that armies are nearly always deployed the wrong way around with reinforcements entering the battle correctly.

The lack of city maps does not feel right for CA and it looks to me like a patched job, that cities and perhaps other game play was removed from the game in an effort to deal with technical problems.

I could very easily be wrong but I am and a lot of other people are struggling to understand why Empires is so different to the game that was promised.

**R4nd0M** · April 03, 2009, 02:34 AM

A 32 bit application (like ETW) will operate fine in a 64 bit environment. This is true with ETW given that these performance issues (among others) are present when running the game under a 32 bit OS.

Magic numbers can affect code maintenence, not performance. I can see there being issues when working with memory addresses and magic numbers in code when compiling an application for 64 bit systems that was originally written for 32 bit ones but ETW is not a 64 bit application and therefore this has no bearing on it's performance.

The removal of large cities as a remedy for performance and technical issues by CA is pure conjecture. The consensus (and I believe, though don't ask me to show you where, that CA has stated this at some point) is that large cities were left out for obvious gameplay and to a degree historical considerations.

Anyway, the bottom line is: ETW is a 32 bit application. A 32 bit application runs as a 32 bit application regardless of whether you're running it on a 64 bit or 32 bit operating system which sits on a system with 64 bit architecture.

**Modestus** · April 03, 2009, 04:10 AM

Yes indeed I understand that, I have obviously 32-bit applications running on my system.

What I am curious about is this 64-bit safe coding what does this actually mean? From my limited understanding it looks as if it is a recommended method of writing a program with a more rigorous testing regime.

An old 32-bit program that has been developed over the years will have a lot of its issues ironed out so that running this on a 64-bit system is not a worry.

Also as far as I am aware some programs are just not 64-bit compatible.

Empires is a new engine so I am wondering could this be causing some problems in a 64-bit environment.

**Brusilov** · April 03, 2009, 05:28 AM

Originally Posted by Modestus

Also as far as I am aware some programs are just not 64-bit compatible.

Empires is a new engine so I am wondering could this be causing some problems in a 64-bit environment.

I think the only problem of using a 32-bit program on a 64-bit system is that half the memory address is never going to be used. The result of that is the program isn't as efficient as it could be.

If it were possible to run a 64-bit program on a 32-bit system then there would be all sorts of problems as the program will be trying to address memory that isn't there (or use some other part of memory thinking it's the second half of the 64-bit word). That would be a disaster.

Empires is simply having problems of a game that was released too soon. Hopefully, the problems will be sorted out within a month or so.

**ohnoesaz** · April 03, 2009, 05:09 PM

Since CA used the old early 2000's engine for this new game, its not exactly as playable on 64bit as it is on 32bit. But hey, anything to save a buck right? (Oh wait, thats what Chrysler and GM thought too, look whats happening to them. Is CA next?)

**Brusilov** · April 04, 2009, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by ohnoesaz

Since CA used the old early 2000's engine for this new game, its not exactly as playable on 64bit as it is on 32bit. But hey, anything to save a buck right? (Oh wait, thats what Chrysler and GM thought too, look whats happening to them. Is CA next?)

Chrysler and GM were producing cars that the consumer wanted to buy (big SUVs) and not the cars the public should have bought. When the consumer changed their minds then they were caught out. Not that is their only problem.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with the topic that the OP raised.