"Fix! Bayonets!" "Um, where, sir?"

[mir24]

Regarding Bayonets and the use thereof...

After researching Plug Bayonets (the very first bayonet tech), I find that my line infantry of Isarelys now have a bayonet icon to use/toggle when in battle.

Then I research the next bayonet tech, which are Ring Bayonets (I think). But now, the bayonet icon disappears! o_O What gives?

Are the bayonets automatically fixed from the beginning? Or do we assume the soldiers fix them as soon as I toggle "melee" mode in battle?

[Snoman13]

I think it's because with the plug bayonets they either can't take them out or it takes them an extremely long time to un-sharpen their guns. Ring tech facilitates the removal of a bayonet so it's not as weighty of an issue, ordering your inf to fix bayonets.

[Gallimatias]

With the first tech they plug the barrel and cant ever shot again. Hence the special icon. With the second tech they can take it on and of and thats what they do when you toggle meele. With the third tech they are pre-prepared.

Read the descriptions of the techs when in doubt. Its explained there.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

With plug once you put the bayonet in then you cannot take it out again and that means they can't fire. So I suppose it lets you decide when you want to perform that maneuver then forcing it on you.

[Epic]

If you guys look carefully enough you would see that the bayonets are already fitted onto the rifle from the start of the battle after you research "Ring Bayonets". Basically, the plug bayonets do what the name implies. But the ring bayonets are attached to a ring that is fitted around the front edge of the rifle, which allows the solider to shoot while the bayonet is already attached to the rifle.

[mir24]

Thanks for the quick replies, everyone.

Yeah, I know plug bayonets are a one off thing. Once you plug the rifles, you can only "un-plug" after the battle. I was just wondering if it takes time to fix bayonets. You know, like how commanders would order their soldiers to "Fix Bayonets!" just before they charge.

Supposedly having a bayonet on one's rifle affects one's aiming somewhat. Ah well, in a way it's good it's all simplified.

[blank]

Yeah, I know plug bayonets are a one off thing. Once you plug the rifles, you can only "un-plug" after the battle. I was just wondering if it takes time to fix bayonets. You know, like how commanders would order their soldiers to "Fix Bayonets!" just before they charge.

With the plug bayonets, it takes them a few seconds to fix, there's even an animation for it.

Supposedly having a bayonet on one's rifle affects one's aiming somewhat. Ah well, in a way it's good it's all simplified.

Ring bayonets affect the reload speed, but not accuracy.

[Djûn]

Ring bayonets affect the reload speed, but not accuracy.

If this is the case then why can't we remove the ring bayonets to fire faster and then fix bayonets later in order to charge? As far as I'm aware, once you research Ring Bayonets then they are on your muskets regardless, and nothing can take them off. This seems a bit rubbish having to wait until Socket Bayonets to return to a rate of fire you had before having bayonets in the first place.

It really doesn't. I've got a Mosin-Nagant 91/30, which, while a bit shorter and lighter (and bolt actionier) than rifles of the era. But the bayo just makes the gun a slight bit more front-heavy, which you can compensate for. If you used it all the time, I don't think you'd notice it.

One can hardly compare a late 19th century rifle to an early 18th century musket.

[PGeo36]

It seems that originally you had the choice to fix ring bayonets or not because if you notice when you research socket bayonets the adviser will pop up saying you'll notice now that the fix bayonet button is gone blah blah blah.


Personally you should get to have the choice with ring bayonets as it would add another aspect of tactics, would you rather have increased melee damage at the cost of reload speed or the other way around.

[LogisticEarth]

One can hardly compare a late 19th century rifle to an early 18th century musket.

The bayonet construction is more or less similar across those firearms. For the purposes of comparing the effects of bayonets on accuracy, it's entirely appropriate to compare the two. A socket bayo does nothing to make a rifle or musket inherently less accurate. They simply make the gun a little more front-heavy, which can be compensated by the shooter and only comes into account for holding the gun up for extened periods of time.

Here's a typical 18th century socket bayonet:


And here's the Mosin's bayonet:


Very similar in size, construction, etc. Now if you're talking about sword bayonets or something equally absurd, that's a different story.

[LogisticEarth]

You know, like how commanders would order their soldiers to "Fix Bayonets!" just before they charge.

I'm not really an expert on the era, but given that bayonet charges were fairly common, I wouldn't be surprised if it was standard to always go into battle with bayonets fixed. The "Fix bayonets!" order is more of a WWI and later thing, perhaps. Even for the Soviets in WWII, I think it was actually standard operating procedure to go into battle with bayos already fixed.

Supposedly having a bayonet on one's rifle affects one's aiming somewhat. Ah well, in a way it's good it's all simplified.

It really doesn't. I've got a Mosin-Nagant 91/30, which, while a bit shorter and lighter (and bolt actionier) than rifles of the era. But the bayo just makes the gun a slight bit more front-heavy, which you can compensate for. If you used it all the time, I don't think you'd notice it.

[klesh]

Yes it seems to me the three bayonet technologies and effects we supposed to be like this:

• Plug Bayonet - Button to affix, no shooting after affixing.
• Ring Bayonet - Button to affix, reduced rate of fire when affixed.
• Socket Bayonet - Permanently affixed, no penalty when affixed.

The loss of the affix bayonet button for the Ring bayonet has thrown this logically improving bayonet development path out of whack. I wonder if modders can alter this yet?

[mir24]

Yes it seems to me the three bayonet technologies and effects we supposed to be like this:

• Plug Bayonet - Button to affix, no shooting after affixing.
• Ring Bayonet - Button to affix, reduced rate of fire when affixed.
• Socket Bayonet - Permanently affixed, no penalty when affixed.

The loss of the affix bayonet button for the Ring bayonet has thrown this logically improving bayonet development path out of whack. I wonder if modders can alter this yet?

EXACTLY! This is the point I was trying to make. It adds to the realism of the game (well, a step closer anyway) and forces a player to make new tactical decisions. That, and I love the idea of hearing the unit commanders shout "Fix! Bayonets!".

[Djûn]

Exactly, klesh. Sometimes I want to be able to fire faster without the melée bonus, but I don't get a choice. Even if I was forced to choose at the beginning of the battle I would be fine with it.

[CynicalTyler]

Maybe I'm the only other one here, but I've noticed my line infantry with ring bayonet do not start out with it fixed. Only when I give them the Melee command (and give them time before ordering a charge) do they fix their bayonets. I haven't noticed what happens if you then order them out of Melee mode, but I would assume that's when they would remove their ring bayonets.

Can someone check this out and provide a more detailed report? (I would but I'm at work... uh... working.)

[Djûn]

Hmm... Every time I can remember using Ring Bayonets I had no option but to keep them on, even from the start of the battle. Certain infantry do not get bayonets at all, however.

[snowleopard]

Hello,

Go to Wikipedia and type in Bayonets and you will read it's history and evoltion however if you click with right button in Empire and you will read short history and explain different type in chain down

[snowleopard]

Also major reason to make easily remove it is make reload much easily without get bayonet tip in your eye or in hand. Remember that standard battle smoothed barrel rifle in kill range is 50 to 70 yards as how long it take to reload as enemy rush to you so up to commander give order "bayonet" in hurry to guard against melee attack then able remove it as reload quick as enemy withdrawn.

[Geordie-warlord]

sorry mate but it's not very hard to work out is it???
the option is there so you can decide to ditch the musket in favor of the quick made pike conversion..but if you can have a useable pike/musket then there is no more need for the option to switch to each one...but im not having a go at you personaly...you would know about it if i was mate!!!

[Djûn]

sorry mate but it's not very hard to work out is it???
the option is there so you can decide to ditch the musket in favor of the quick made pike conversion..but if you can have a useable pike/musket then there is no more need for the option to switch to each one...but im not having a go at you personaly...you would know about it if i was mate!!!

I'm really sorry, but did you read the rest of the thread?

The complaint is that with Ring Bayonets your rate of fire is decreased. I, personally, would like to be able to remove them to get a better rate of fire.