Sick Around America

[Da Skinna]

I think it was Bigfootedfred that posted the other Frontline, where's here's this one. Just as important.

As a Canadian, I've had frustrations with our system, it's not perfect. No one's is, and if you can find a perfect system... let the world know.

But my God America you're so allergic to socialism you're letting down Americans big time.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...damerica/view/

[Khannis]

I'm not a big fan of Michael Moore, but SICKO does have a point.

[Nevins]

We don't have fully privatized insurance. Watch the John Stossel 20/20 thing, its on youtube, called Sick in America. His main point is that because companies give their employees benefits like health care, no one knows what things cost, and this leads to a great deal of waste and the like.

[Hambone]

As an american, I agree with you 100%, america needs a goverment run healthcare system for every U.S citizen
Hillary tried to make that happen when Bill (Clinton) was in office, but it was struck down by republicans in the senate

[Draksen]

As an american, I agree with you 100%, america needs a goverment run healthcare system for every U.S citizen
Hillary tried to make that happen when Bill (Clinton) was in office, but it was struck down by republicans in the senate

That's one reason why I am so proud and happy to be European.
Healthcare in both countries in which I have passed 10+ years (France and Finland, costs me basicaly zero / month. Well in fact it costs money (taxes) but if you really need it, you dont have to worry about it.

[eatme]

We don't have fully privatized insurance. Watch the John Stossel 20/20 thing, its on youtube, called Sick in America. His main point is that because companies give their employees benefits like health care, no one knows what things cost, and this leads to a great deal of waste and the like.

Hell HMOs do know... as well as FDIC backed Insurance companies.. Hence the surge in the lobbying for additional funding..

The ones who do not know are Taxpayers.. including your regular corporate employees, who take this for granted, no matter the cost share-plans..

But as the crisis steps on the shoe of many a consumer, peps start to count coppers and wonder why some things cost so much!

[The Devil's Sergeant]

Having watched half the videoso far, I don't really see a problem. Much is as it ought to be.

[Scar Face]

Americans are not letting anyone down by avoiding Socialism. In America you might not be able to afford health insurance, or you may even be screwed over afterwards. In Canada, when you go to the Hospital, you just get ignored. If you need a surgery, you go to America. No one can wait three months for a minor [or major!] surgery, which is considered speedy in Canada. We are crippled because we can't offer competitive prices to our Doctors.

Edit: Not to mention, do you have any vague understanding of the costs to completely revamp and nationalize a system like healthcare? Do you realize how bad the economy is going to be? If you want to ruin America's healthcare, at least wait a few decades so they can afford it. Theres no reason to be cruel.

[Admiral Piett]

Americans are not letting anyone down by avoiding Socialism. In America you might not be able to afford health insurance, or you may even be screwed over afterwards. In Canada, when you go to the Hospital, you just get ignored. If you need a surgery, you go to America. No one can wait three months for a minor [or major!] surgery, which is considered speedy in Canada. We are crippled because we can't offer competitive prices to our Doctors.

Edit: Not to mention, do you have any vague understanding of the costs to completely revamp and nationalize a system like healthcare? Do you realize how bad the economy is going to be? If you want to ruin America's healthcare, at least wait a few decades so they can afford it. Theres no reason to be cruel.

QFT. Plus we couldn't afford it. Just in another thread some guy is talking about schools being merged together just to cut costs. How the hell can we expect to afford a universal healthcare?

Something I might support is something like mandatory insurance, just like with car insurance and then cut medicare entirely, thus saving some of your paycheck to pay for the insurance.

Whatever we do about insurance and covering costs, we need to first cut costs. We do this by reducing the power of the FDA, because they drive up the costs of drugs intentionally to make money. We should be allowed to import drugs from Canada and possibly other countries while setting price cielings. If the cost goes down, the insurance companies won't have to rape us as much.

[The Good]

Americans are not letting anyone down by avoiding Socialism. In America you might not be able to afford health insurance, or you may even be screwed over afterwards. In Canada, when you go to the Hospital, you just get ignored. If you need a surgery, you go to America. No one can wait three months for a minor [or major!] surgery, which is considered speedy in Canada. We are crippled because we can't offer competitive prices to our Doctors.

Edit: Not to mention, do you have any vague understanding of the costs to completely revamp and nationalize a system like healthcare? Do you realize how bad the economy is going to be? If you want to ruin America's healthcare, at least wait a few decades so they can afford it. Theres no reason to be cruel.

Scar Face, this is why I find Canadian health care not that good... The people who need to have surgeries often need URGENT help. Few can afford with their lives to wait three months.

[Sidmen]

Something I might support is something like mandatory insurance, just like with car insurance and then cut medicare entirely, thus saving some of your paycheck to pay for the insurance.

This is actually Hillary's Plan. It failed so bad that Bill didn't put her in charge of anything else his entire tenure in office. I don't respect any law that forces you to give money to a private company just because your alive.

Whatever we do about insurance and covering costs, we need to first cut costs. We do this by reducing the power of the FDA, because they drive up the costs of drugs intentionally to make money. We should be allowed to import drugs from Canada and possibly other countries while setting price cielings. If the cost goes down, the insurance companies won't have to rape us as much.

Indeed, But cutting costs won't do anything other than just increase profits for the insurance companies. You'd need to remove the greed that permeates the Health care system to see any substantial reductions in cost.

[Admiral Piett]

This is actually Hillary's Plan. It failed so bad that Bill didn't put her in charge of anything else his entire tenure in office. I don't respect any law that forces you to give money to a private company just because your alive.

Indeed, But cutting costs won't do anything other than just increase profits for the insurance companies. You'd need to remove the greed that permeates the Health care system to see any substantial reductions in cost.

Sidmen, how would a federal insurance be any different? How is the greed of corporate insurance any different from greed of a government agency? It may be flawed, but it's the best solution one can think of. Like I said, we already do it for cars, why not also have mandatory insurance for health and retirement and simply get rid of the government programs?

Also, the government can oversee and regulation these companies.

[Scar Face]

Greed is good, it's motivation to try better. It's when it permeates every orifice of an industry and action that it begins having negative effects. You shouldn't try to remove greed or profit in the health care system, you should try to bring about a happy medium; both richness of body and richness of wallet can be attained if done correctly, for all.

[Quadratus]

*sigh

I can't even watch this socialist propaganda..

Socialist health care = death sentence.

[Admiral Piett]

*sigh

I can't even watch this socialist propaganda..

Well disagree with Michael Moore all you want just asI do, but he raises very valid points. There needs to be a major overhaul of our healthcare systems.

[justicar5]

*sigh

I can't even watch this socialist propaganda..

Socialist health care = death sentence.

really? the UK does alright we aren't prfect, but way better off than you in terms of healthcare, same with france. From personnel experience my mother had a suspect lump, within 1 week she was in hospital having had a ct scan, confirming the lump was cancerous, imeediatly that result came in it was removed, and radiotherapy was started, all that in 1 week. The NHS is far from perfect but by god they move fast if the situation is life threatening.

[Sidmen]

Sidmen, how would a federal insurance be any different? How is the greed of corporate insurance any different from greed of a government agency?

I don't make the claim that moving over to government-controlled healthcare will make greed go away. But when you can loose your job because your costs are too high; its a strong motivation to cut down the costs.

The rules of suppily and demand dictate that you should increase your price until the demand meets your suppily. Well the demand for medical services are always a constant, or increasing, so the medical industry naturally increases costs for no other reason than "People will pay it."

Anyone with a brain can see that its gotten out of control. For instance, 1 week being in a hospital cost me $30,000; Twice what I make in a year. And only 2,000 of it went to the surgeon. There is no logical reason it should've cost that much.

I'll support any plan that reduces the cost for the 'consumer/victim' of the medical industry, doesn't need to be socialization.

[Admiral Piett]

I don't make the claim that moving over to government-controlled healthcare will make greed go away. But when you can loose your job because your costs are too high; its a strong motivation to cut down the costs.

The rules of suppily and demand dictate that you should increase your price until the demand meets your suppily. Well the demand for medical services are always a constant, or increasing, so the medical industry naturally increases costs for no other reason than "People will pay it."

Anyone with a brain can see that its gotten out of control. For instance, 1 week being in a hospital cost me $30,000; Twice what I make in a year. And only 2,000 of it went to the surgeon. There is no logical reason it should've cost that much.

I'll support any plan that reduces the cost for the 'consumer/victim' of the medical industry, doesn't need to be socialization.

So then what course of action would you support? I'm just on the fence about the whole issue myself. Every person has a right to healthcare, but someone's gotta pay for it.

[Nietzsche]

So then what course of action would you support? I'm just on the fence about the whole issue myself. Every person has a right to healthcare, but someone's gotta pay for it.

I nearly froth at the mouth when I see someone abuse the word "right." You do not have the "right" to healthcare. You do not have the "right" to a job. You do not have the "right" to anything except what is mentioned in the Bill of Rights (if you live in the USA).

What you do have is the option of going to see a doctor. You have many doctors to choose from. You have the discretion to go to the doctor you choose. If you cannot afford a doctor, then you have options there as well. One of which is to seek help from your community, family, or charity.

If you believe that the government is responsible for the health of it's citizens then you need to understand something important. If you make healthcare universal, you diminish the quality of the healthcare for all. The reason why doctors work so hard and suffer through the 8-10 years of medical school and internship in the first place is because they will make a considerable amount of money if they are successful. With universal healthcare the government sets price controls, which means they will only pay a certain amount for a procedure, or they won't subsidize the procedure at all. In the latter case, you may not get treatment anyway regardless of your healthcare, in the first case, the cost for your low-priced treatment will be carried to those with private insurance raising their premiums and lowers their overall quality of health if it doesn't price them right out of their own insurance, exacerbating the overall problem.

It's a sad reality. It's one that I experience daily as well. It is why I don't go to the doctor unless I'm on a gurney. The reality is, we can't afford everything. We won't get the quality we think we deserve by some imagined "rights." The wealthy will always live better, but the government will always assure that the majority touched by government healthcare will always live worse. I can site no better example than the way our veterans are treated. Veteran healthcare is a joke and it's government regulated. If that's my future, then I'd rather have no healthcare and just save my money and hope for the best because honestly, I bet I would live longer anyway.

[Admiral Piett]

I nearly froth at the mouth when I see someone abuse the word "right." You do not have the "right" to healthcare. You do not have the "right" to a job. You do not have the "right" to anything except what is mentioned in the Bill of Rights (if you live in the USA).

What you do have is the option of going to see a doctor. You have many doctors to choose from. You have the discretion to go to the doctor you choose. If you cannot afford a doctor, then you have options there as well. One of which is to seek help from your community, family, or charity.

If you believe that the government is responsible for the health of it's citizens then you need to understand something important. If you make healthcare universal, you diminish the quality of the healthcare for all. The reason why doctors work so hard and suffer through the 8-10 years of medical school and internship in the first place is because they will make a considerable amount of money if they are successful. With universal healthcare the government sets price controls, which means they will only pay a certain amount for a procedure, or they won't subsidize the procedure at all. In the latter case, you may not get treatment anyway regardless of your healthcare, in the first case, the cost for your low-priced treatment will be carried to those with private insurance raising their premiums and lowers their overall quality of health if it doesn't price them right out of their own insurance, exacerbating the overall problem.

It's a sad reality. It's one that I experience daily as well. It is why I don't go to the doctor unless I'm on a gurney. The reality is, we can't afford everything. We won't get the quality we think we deserve by some imagined "rights." The wealthy will always live better, but the government will always assure that the majority touched by government healthcare will always live worse. I can site no better example than the way our veterans are treated. Veteran healthcare is a joke and it's government regulated. If that's my future, then I'd rather have no healthcare and just save my money and hope for the best because honestly, I bet I would live longer anyway.

I beg to differ, sir. Conservatives go on and on about the whole right to "life" bullcrap. Healthcare guarantees that right to life.

Also, no one here is saying all of healthcare should be subsidized and controlled. There should just be an option for the cost coverage. If you can afford better quality healthcare in private practice, that should be an option.