Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Ahenobarbus/Celsus

[Junius]

My understanding is that, in older times, a lustrum was the sacrafice offered after the Census, taken every five years. That is how it came to take it's current meaning. However, the Sybil, when she wrote her books, must have still kept to the ancient meaning of the word. I then propose that we move forward with the Census, offer a purification, and then the Censor offers the traditional sacrafice, the 'lustrum', which your prophecy speaks of. I think that would appease the gods, and thus is my suggestion for the course of action which this house should take.

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

Falco looks about his scrolls bewilderedly.

"Eh? Ah... Eh... Well... Quite... q-quite extraordinary. You may be right, Macerinus. I was so caught up in thinking in the modern sense, that I had entirely overlooked that possibility. If the Sibyl had meant 5 years, then she would have written 5 years, would she not?

But we have just had a census! We would still have to wait 5 years... Unless... unless we have not yet finished the census itself and are thus still 'waiting for the lustrum'!

Thank you, Macerinus, thank you! The fates may not always have been kind to you, but you are a smart man!

Worry not, dear Senators, these are merely copies and notes. Obviously I would not take the original Books away from the Keepers. These scrolls are kept under my personal supervision at all times and will be burned as soon as I am done with them."

[Lord Kal]

A messenger enters the hall.

"Dispatch from the Proconsul!"

Conscript Fathers,

The situation is largely unchanged in Sicily and I await my reinforcement cavalry units, which should be arriving soon. The Greeks do appear to be threatening a blockade and we have evidence to suggest they have agents still active in our territory. With that in mind, I intend to take the fight to the Greeks and remove the threat of invasion. However, I would like to complete this victory by capturing Messana and Syracuse, rather than simply letting the Greeks amass another army. I believe with my reinforcements I will have the soldiers to achieve this, and therefore all I request from you is a mandate to do so.

I await your reply.

CAIVS FLAVIVS CRASSVS

[Snowball]

I hereby propose the following motion.

Lex Marcus on Sicilia

With the intent in mind of ending hostilities in sicily, and achieving supreme rule over the island. The initiation of these hostilities having not been our own, the senate and people of Rome hereby instruct the Pro Consul of sicily to

I. Make war on the messanians and to take their city by any means available to him.

In addition, the senate decrees

II. That should the capture of said town take place, it is to be incorporated into the province of sicilia, and shall fall under the jurisdiction of the pro consul.

III. The senate decrees that that city shall also be taken and incorporated into the province of Sicilia. And fall under the Pro Consuls jurisdiction.


I ask, have the syracusans acted against rome?




OOC: Added as per lord kals information.

[Galerius Priscus]

I support this motion. Messana has to be taken, this is imperative.

Although I think that Syracuse is not hostile towards us, we should still stay cautious, an assault from their side can still take place.

[Lord Kal]

OOC: Just so everyone's clear, Messana and Syracuse are both owned by the Greek Cities.

[Snowball]

OOC: I edited the motion.

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Ahenobarbus frowned slightly at the new motion.

I would agree, but the consequences of such an attack might not be so excellent. Do realise that it is most likely that the Syracusans have supported Messana, due to the fact that Syracuse is the main Greek city in eastern Sicily. Therefore, it is almost a certainty that the large Greek army has an element of Syracusan contribution. It will ultimately be assaulted anyway. Syracuse has been a major base for trade for the Hellenic Greeks. Think of their reaction when we capture their main trading city! It might bring the wrath of all of Greece upon us, and perhaps disgust from other nations. Though we have not started this war, using it as excuse to go on the offensive of conquering could put us in bad light.

Therefore, I would like to make an addition to Senator Clarus' motion. I believe that we should send a diplomat or two to the Greeks in Sicily, and see whether they would be willing to break hostilities. If not, then fair enough, it is they who have rejected fair terms of peace, since we shall have demanded neither tributes or a surrender, and we can attack with good reason. If yes, then all the better. We can also obtain trading rights at the same time, and gain relations with the Greeks, a sophisticated civilisation as like our own. So the motion would look like this:

With the intent in mind of ending hostilities in sicily, and achieving supreme rule over the island. The initiation of these hostilities having not been our own, the senate and people of Rome hereby instruct the Pro Consul of sicily to

I. To send diplomatic envoys to the Greek cities in a bid to make peace. If peace terms of ceasefire are rejected, then the Proconsul is to:

II. Make war on the Messanians and to take their city by any means available to him, and destroy their standing army.

III. That should the capture of said town take place, it is to be incorporated into the province of sicilia, and shall fall under the jurisdiction of the Proconsul.

IV. Should sufficient evidence be brought forth that the Syracuse have acted against Rome, or supported the Messanans to do so. The Senate decrees that that city shall also be taken and incorporated into the province of Sicilia and fall under the Proconsul's jurisdiction.

[Junius]

I would be more in favour of Ahenobarbus's motion than of Clarus's one. I think the ceasation of hostilities must be brought about, and I would rather it be done by diplomatic means, rather than military ones which just breeds bad blood between our two nations, and ultimately leads to further conflict.

[Snowball]

I completely agree, and endorse the consuls modification of my motion.

[Galerius Priscus]

Good, if we at first try to make peace, it will be in our benefit:

If they accept the terms, we can claim a ceasefire, and blood will not be spilt in vain.
However, if they decline, which is quite possible, we can attack, and still we shall not be seen as agressive by the other nations. Then war would be inevitable, and we would only be doing what is just.

[Valerius Tiberius]

Pro-Consul, have you not heard about the events in the Senate House? Surely, if you did not, then any other man speaking about this motion had to...

I said every motion about an attack on the Greeks could be considered vetoed, ask the slaves for the scrolls why. (OOC: read previous pages)

I thought I made this clear?

A silence followed, no one really knew if Popillius expected an anwser

But I will rethink of my veto after the peace talks, let us see how those develop.

[Snowball]

DISREGARD THIS POST

YOU OUGHT TO TELL US WHEN YOUVE DECIDED THESE THINGS WINTER.

[Junius]

ooc: Also, how could the proconsul could have known about the debates in the Curia since, you know, he is in Sicily, and not actually here, it's just his messenger.

[Lord Kal]

OOC: I had hoped to RP this but I need to clarify. I spoke to Winter about this last night. I am not allowed to capture anything without a mandate from the Senate. The mandate may be vetoed, but the tribune can do nothing to prevent me from going and attacking their armies. However, whether I am allowed to do that hinges on whether we have been attacked by the Greeks. They attempted to assasinate one of our generals, but have not crossed the border, which is a grey area, and we shall see how things pan out. Now, continue...

[Junius]

May I ask on what grounds does the Tribune veto this motion? I ask not as a Senator, but as a Plebian, and he has a duty to me to explain why he has done this, since he is my protector in the Senate, and is ultimately accountable to the People, myself included.

[Ozy]

Senator Agricolla, you are forgetting who started the hostilities in the first place. You say "I will not allow Rome to give the first blow", but, senator, the first blow has already been given, and it was not Rome who did it, but the Greeks! They tried to take the life of one of the Tribunes in the island, at the time, the highest Roman authority in the island. They knew what the were doing, and certainly wish to take us out of the island!

If they do not want a war, were are their emissaries, asking for our forgiveness? Were are the diplomats begging for peace? There are none! There are, however, thousand of men armed near the border. What do you call that, senator? Do you think they want peace?

[Valerius Tiberius]

OOC1: ow comon kal, you gotta be kidding? This really seems like a filthy trick just to be able to attack! If I veto any campaign against the greeks, you can't start one. I find this not so cool.

OOC2: ow comon people, are we really going to have this debate again? we did it a few pages ago

OOC3: I hope my man isn't making himself too unpopular here

EDIT: OOC4: I just read "attack their armies" ..... hmmm, IF they are on your lands then?
not the ones in their lands, alrighty then (cause there aren't any in your land, right?)

[Lord Kal]

OOC: As I said, it's a grey area. The Greeks have sort of attacked us and have certainly instigated war. As Proconsul I have the right to defend myself and go on campaign 1 territory away, just not to capture anything without a mandate, which you can veto. But essentially you're powerless to prevent me from attacking the Greek army. But it's legality is debatable. It's all RPable, so it's fine.

[apple]

"I would not suport any attack on Greek soil by any means before an army of there moves into our land.
Offer them a peace treaty is the only right thing to do. I would not support a man that brings war just because he want to have make a name of himself!"

Marcus was all red in his face. How could these so called senators break the law, say outrageous things about the goods (!) and then want to attack a minor hostile faction.