Increasing the speed of Halberdiers?

**Zombimode** · March 29, 2009, 01:38 PM

Halberdiers are cool and everything, but the problem is they are soooo slow. Now, that wouldnt be a problem for me, the player, but the AI is completly unabel to use them. They alway lag behind.

Now I am searching for ways to increase their marching speed. My first try was with the move_speed_mod in the edu. While a suffiecent hight number brings their speed on par with pikemen in phalanx mode they outrun Speedy Gonzales while not in phalanx.

I think I could live with that (just restricting myself to not leave phalanx mode), but Im curious if it could be done more elegant.

**Taiji** · March 30, 2009, 10:22 AM

I'm thinking about the same problem, I think mixing up the animations with pikes so they use pike animations for walking would make them as good as pikes. I haven't tried it yet though.

edit:

OK got it working.

advance
intermediate_brace_advance

Possibly just those 2 anims need switching to another type like axe or pike.

**Zombimode** · March 31, 2009, 06:22 AM

Replacing animations is an exellent idea

I thought of that too, since they were the last things that could possibly affect the marching speed (I tried every other attribut I found in the edu).

I replaced the lines you suggested with the pikemen animations. The marching speed in phanlanx mode didnt change, but at least the marching speed outside phalanx mode was on par with pikemen.
But nevertheless we're on the right path here

I will play a bit with the animations and let you know if find the right lines.

**Zombimode** · March 31, 2009, 07:11 AM

I dont get it.
Probably I made a mistake somewhere.

I replaced the wohle mtw2_halberd_primary with mtw2_pike execpt for the header.
I could not observe any changes in marching behavour.

But then I replaced the animation line in the battle_models.modeldb of the halberd militia with those of pike militia.

Now the halberds moved at the same speed as the pikemen.
But somehow, this doesnt make sense...

Well, Im done with modding for today, but I will look into this further in the next days.

**Taiji** · March 31, 2009, 07:12 AM

I already found the right lines, mine's perfect

Now which lines did I change again?....

**Zombimode** · March 31, 2009, 07:15 AM

Are you sure its just advance and intermediate_brace_advance and work if in phalanx mode?

If yes, I made a mistake somewhere probably.
But could you post your statblock of a halberd unit and the modedb entry? Just to see if we work with a comparable setup.

**Taiji** · March 31, 2009, 07:22 AM

Well I might have made a mess... I am actually trying to force them to use their secondary weapon while in phalanx and it's working perfectly

I'lll upload the details

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

There's all of it apart from the secondary weapon stuff which is based on axe, my halberds are spending all their time poking and chopping. Let me know if you want the axe secondary too.

Here's a pic of them beating pikes in a phalanx race (axe anims

):
Attachment 35707

Note that if they try to step back while in phalanx they'll step forwards so they are forced into secondary weapon ranges. For me this is major, it means they will not spend time switching between weapons again and again while they fight which has been the main obstacle to my using any dual weapon inf.

Also although most of my units use shuffle forwards instead of shuffle backwards (it's superior realism, no question about that) I've left these guys with shuffle back. The result is that they fight making the most use possible of distance when out of phalanx but when in phalanx they hold a line and maintain cohesion. So they have a kill/die fast mode with phalanx and with non-phalanx they take forever to kill but do not get as much done.

edit:

possibility that what I've shown may be incorrect.... further testing...

**Zombimode** · March 31, 2009, 08:01 AM

Thanks, Taiji

Hm, I tried your code but sadly their speed didnt change.

Is there anything else you had changed from the basic vanilla halberd setup?

But your take on halberd troops sounds quiet interesting

although I am not sure if I could adapt it.
I need my halberd troops to achieve two goals:
- cavalry defense: absolutly necessary, since many factions dont have any other unit for cavalry defense in the late era
- basic infantry: they need to be better in (almost) every aspect then spearmen as they are replacing them (only very few factions make use of spearmen in the late era, and those who left arent expendeble cheap militia troops but well trained and equiped professionals like Morgnwg Spearmen, Pavise Spearmen etc.)

**Taiji** · March 31, 2009, 08:08 AM

... well I'm surprised you didn't just ctd... I have just rebuilt my anims, I was concerned that I might have changed the settings since I last rebuilt them and it turns out I have - I just CTD now.

I'll do it all again

edit: It should work fine, my CTD was caused by a different oversight.

edit: about your desired halberd result, this is exactly what I have achieved. They can brace, and retain their halberd stabs while in phalanx (anticav heaven) but they also use axe moves (realistic). I haven't released my progress yet but I'll PM you when I do so you can check them out in the flesh. Download DLV 6.1 if you haven't already

**Santiago de Pola** · March 31, 2009, 08:34 AM

edit: Didn't read the first post right..suggested the move_speed_mod!

**Zombimode** · March 31, 2009, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by Taiji

edit: about your desired halberd result, this is exactly what I have achieved. They can brace, and retain their halberd stabs while in phalanx (anticav heaven) but they also use axe moves (realistic). I haven't released my progress yet but I'll PM you when I do so you can check them out in the flesh. Download DLV 6.1 if you haven't already

Im looking forward to it

Until then I will filddle with the animations, take a deep look to your MTW2_halberd_primary lines etc.
But not today. I spend waaaay to much time today with modding. Need to get out a bit

See you arround

**Taiji** · March 31, 2009, 08:41 AM

Santiago de Pola, that won't work mate. They move incredibly slowly in phalanx but normal when out of phalanx but the move_speed_mod will affect both. The result will be a good speed for phalanx but a superhuman speed for out of phalanx. Thanks for trying though mate, appreciated

edit:

Well I have found a downside to my approach, not all halberds have a secondary halberd which sucks. Is it historically correct that Janissaries didn't know how to fight in formation with halberds? I doubt it very much.

Euro-chauvinism getting in my way

edit: Zombimode are you rebuilding your anims after you change descr_skeleton.txt?

**Zombimode** · March 31, 2009, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Taiji

Well I have found a downside to my approach, not all halberds have a secondary halberd which sucks. Is it historically correct that Janissaries didn't know how to fight in formation with halberds? I doubt it very much.

Euro-chauvinism getting in my way

couldnt you just set the right animations in the modeldb for the janisaries and give them a sec attack in the edu?
It should work this way.

edit: Zombimode are you rebuilding your anims after you change descr_skeleton.txt?

no, actually I didnt...
I never have worked with the descr_skeleton before, didnt know that was necessary.
Thanks for the hint

**Taiji** · March 31, 2009, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Zombimode

couldnt you just set the right animations in the modeldb for the janisaries and give them a sec attack in the edu?
It should work this way.

Sadly not, they need to have a secondary halberd actually on the model or they fight empty handed.

Originally Posted by Zombimode

no, actually I didnt...
I never have worked with the descr_skeleton before, didnt know that was necessary.
Thanks for the hint

A pleasure

Here is where you download the vanilla anims, extract them to your mod's 'animations' folder.

All you need to do then is rename the vanilla animations folder and then delete the .dats and .idxs in your mod's animations folder.

Your descr_skeleton.txt changes should show up then. The game will be forced to rebuild the anims from the mod folder you extracted them to since it can't find the vanilla animations folder.

Good luck

edit: I just uploaded my stuff, any feedback is appreciated

**Vegas_Bear** · April 20, 2009, 11:07 PM

If you are using a mod that uses the Kingdom.exe try editing the EDU. In the Halberdiers entry add -

move_speed_mod 1.0

HTML Code:

attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, can_withdraw
move_speed_mod   1.0
formation        1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 4, square

You could see if that helps.

**Taiji** · April 23, 2009, 06:40 AM

My tinkering with halbs didn't really work out, I retract my claim that I had them working well. They would not attack at all with the primary weapon so I have had to remove phalanx until I can sort it.