IMPORTANT: Info on Patch.pack vs Mod.pack mod formats plus multiplayer, etc.

[Stokes52]

Many modders are starting to create some amazing skins, conversions, script mods, etc out of the tools that many modders on these boards have created. The two most prevalent ways of creating mods that users can easily install seem to be by creating a (name)-patch.pack file and making a (name)-MOD.pack


So, at first glance:

The patch.pack file can easily be dropped into the data folder allowing the mod to be run, but it cannot easily be turned "on and off" without deleting or moving the file. Because of this shortcoming (I assume), the MOD.pack format is sometimes used. This format has the advantage of being able to be turned on and off via a mod manager. Sounds great right? Unfortunately after doing some testing I have found a possible exception to using this method.

By using the MOD.pack method, it tells the game that your version of ETW is different from the standard ETW, which means that it CANNOT be used online. On the other hand, patch.packs CAN be used online. (At least if they just change textures and not gameplay itself)

With these findings I would suggest modders use this standard when deciding which method to use.

UNIT RETEXURES / GRAPHICAL MODS - NO GAMEPLAY OR MODEL CHANGES
Use the patch.pack version. If its a mod like that just changes a unit or factions texture it is doubtful that you will be turning it on and off, plus you will undoubtedly want to use your great looking skins online. If you use the other method you won't be able to, so thats why you would use this method when saving your mod

UNIT STAT CHANGES / AI OR OTHER SCRIPT CHANGES - ANYTHING THAT CHANGES GAMEPLAY
Use the MOD.pack version. This way you can easily switch between different mods that might make the game play very differently. Also using the mod manager you can easily turn off campaign or skirmish mods that WILL conflict with online mode.


Hopefully this is helpful for those who don't know what format to save their mods in. I personally will be changing any and all skin retextures that I make or download to patch.packs instead of MOD.packs so that I can use them online. On the other hand I'd like to be able to turn on and off other types of mods, using the MOD.pack method.

[Stokes52]

/bump,

I want to make sure people see this, it should clear up some discussion on which format is better.

[dutch musketeer]

Cheers mate very helpfull

[♔ST0MPA♔]

I found that before you play multiplayer, if you go to the scripts folder and remove the user script from the folder (just quickly drag it to your desktop. you will be able to play online, tho you wont have to move the mods from the game data file, you wont be able to use them. so remember to turn your skin mods to patch.packs so like the man said, you can still use them.

[LtChambers]

I wouldn't bank on patch packs continuing to be allowed in multiplayer. I wouldn't be surprised to see that addressed in the first gameplay patch.

[Captian Barbossa]

They DID say that using patch formats in mod packs would cause problems after a few more patches had been added.

Although, given as to what you said Lt, i don't know who they'd implement that, it has the potential to disable the regular patches in online games too, which is probably another reason why they told us not to use the patch format for .packs.

[Stokes52]

If they disable patch.pack there will still be a way to bring modified skins into multiplayer. I used to do this in Company of Heroes.

What we will have to do eventually is take the actual .dds files and simply replace them where needed. As far as I know there is no way the game knows anything has been modded, since it doesn't "check" where all the little pixels are to see if it has been modded. What it DOES check, however (or should check), is whether or not the "numbers" that change how the game is played have been altered.

Either way, even if they kill the patch.pack method, we will still be able to use skins online, but it will take MUCH more jumping through hoops.

[Aykis16]

I hope they fix it so that I can play online without having to disable my mods each time.

[harshman_chris]

I think that fact that CA has told us that we are suppose to do mods in a certain way, means we should do them in that way, because most likely they will come up with a method for using them.

But correct me if I am wrong but even if you say as long as people do not change things but textures and stuff, does suggesting not say that this is a method to modify the game online.
Which would be wrong no matter what you change. If CA intends for us to use mods online they will tell us.

[Stokes52]

Sorry, I'm still trying to decipher your second sentence... I'm not sure what you meant by "does suggesting not say that" [My grammar police attack ]

Anyways, to answer what I think you said: "If CA wants us to use mods online, they will tell us that it is allowed":

Answer: I have very high doubts that they will do much to make modding easier for us, especially by supporting it online. But hopefully I'm wrong, right? . That said, I don't think there is anything wrong with changing textures and such around for personal use online because it doesn't affect *anyone* but yourself and your own screen.

On the flipside, if you edit anything but textures and play online, (assuming it would even let you), you really would be breaking the game, because your game plays differently than someone else, which is unfair.

What color stockings a French Line Soldier is wearing, isn't gonna change the battle though, so I say its fair game for modding!

But, I agree with you in that pretty much all mods would be best as MOD.packs, since that is how they were intended. Either way though, I'll be converting textures to patch.packs though so that I can use them online, at least till CA offers a better alternative.

By the way, I'm curious where people are getting all this info on patch.pack stuff from CA! Got any links?

[kungfuserge]

Hi
What are the Possibilities to have A Custom unit ( New name - New Texture but no Changes in Stats working in Single player as Movie Pack or Mod Pack ) Playable in Multi player ?

thanks

[Bladerunner]

If you want to use new units in MP, it is the same as for CA. All players need to have that unit.
2nd issue you have to take care of is setting your mod-file to the status "patch" with PFM.

I don't test out all details here, so i can't say if you need to include the complte tables you changed or if the renaming-tables also runs with patch-format.

As for SP-Mods in the mod-format, you should give your patch-pack a new name. don't call it patch.pack and don't alter the original patch.pack as this would cause trouble with updating the game. this will not happen is you choose another name and ETW will update normally.

The downside of patch-format is definitly the fact, that you need to take out the files to deinstall. Having full table inside your mod, that replace the vanilla in the vitual filesystem will pretty much lead to trouble after a patch. Your mod will overwrite the changes and you need to rework it.

[Mooncabbage]

Just to be clear;

Mod Packs don't work for multiplayer at all. It doesn't matter if you and your opponent have exactly the same files, you can't use mod packs for multiplayer.

Patch Packs on the other hand, do work for multiplayer, if you and your opponents have the exact same files in your data directory. One more, one less, one different piece of data though will render you incompatible.

The main reason to use mod packs is the overide order. Release packs trump Boot packs, Patch trumps Release, Mod trumps Patch, Movie trumps Mod.

If you're making a single player mod, Mod Pack is the best way to go. It allows users far more flexibility swapping in and out, and also allows much finer control of the override order.

If you're making a MP mod, you have to use the patch.pack as a base, and replace it. You could also fiddle around with the name of your patch pack so that it overrides patch.pack, and leave patch.pack in the directory, but this is a lot fiddlier. Then, rather than re-release the patch.pack file every time you want to make a few minor changes between versions, you can use movie packs, which are essentially patch packs further up the overide order, and work perfectly with multiplayer, to release your changes.

[Bladerunner]

Didn't i say that only Patch-format works for MP?

I think, there is also a loading order between Patch.packs: alphabetical.
So be sure your pack is named correctly in a patch-mod to be loaded after all packs you include tables or files you want to overwrite.

Nice idea with the movie.pack. Never thought of using it this way. What i think is courious, is the loc-files. When using patch-format for your loc file it has to be loaded before the vanilla patch_xx.pack (staring with a letter before p). Movie-packs are definitly loaded after the patch-packs, but you can put your loc file in a movie-pack and it shows up...funny..

[T.C.]

Good work, v.helpful
+ rep

[LEGIO_Desaix]

I use "movie" pack without any problem, it seems it overrides everything with low trouble of compatibility in MP, Loc file included.

Mooncabbage I can't see a reason to make a copy of patch.pack which is pretty big and having to move the original one outside the data directory.

[Bladerunner]

Agree. No Mod should replace the original Patch.pack. If you want to make a MP-Mod and you have to use the Patch format, always make a new pack with a new name, only including the files you change.

Replacing the original Patch.pack will lead to problems with updates for the users of a mod. Problems with the mod himself are always a danger, but can be easily solved by an extra-pack with a patch for the mod or by a new version. The user has just to add a pack or replace one. When you get into problems, because you have an altered Patch.pack and the game don't properly update, you easily run into installing the game once again.

[Mooncabbage]

Hmm, I guess that'd never occured to me any more than using movie packs had occured to you guys The grog mod used a patch overide since long before I took it over. The only argument I can make for using the patch.pack is that it allows you to use the movie pack as a patch. But apparently I can use another patch pack named something else and it'll overide automatically. To override patch.pack do i need the Z side of the alphabet or the A side?

[Bladerunner]

you need a latter that comes after the highest letter of the packs you include files from. So ETW starts with a and ends with z. That's my experiance up to now.
So just naming it zpatch.pack would be enough to not override the ca Patch.pack but override the data in the virtual file system, that etw builds up, when starting the game.