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Thread: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

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  1. #1
    Atatürk's Avatar Türküm. Doğruyum...
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    Default Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    The AK47




    During the Cold War, the Soviet Union, Communist China and the United States supplied arms and technical knowledge to numerous client-state countries and rebel forces. While the United States used the relatively expensive M-14 battle rifle and M16 assault rifle during this time, it generally supplied older surplus weapons to its allies. The low production and materials costs of the AK-47 meant that the USSR could produce and supply client states with this rifle instead of sending surplus munitions. As a result, the Cold War saw the mass export, sometimes free of charge, of AK-47s by the Soviet Union and Communist China to pro-communist countries and groups such as the Nicaraguan Sandinistas and Vietcong. The AK design was spread to over 55 national armies and dozens of paramilitary groups.
    The proliferation of this weapon is reflected by more than just numbers. The AK is included in the flag of Mozambique and its coat of arms, an acknowledgment that the country's rulers gained power in large part through the effective use of their AK-47s. It is also found in the coat of arms of Zimbabwe and East Timor, the revolution era coat of arms of Burkina Faso, the flag of Hezbollah, and the logo of the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corpst. Western cultures, especially the United States, have seen the AK-47 most often in the hands of nations and groups the United States condemns; first the Soviet Army, then its Communist allies during the Korean and Vietnam Wars. During the 1980s, the Soviet Union became the principal arms dealer to countries embargoed by the United States, including many Middle Eastern nations such as Syria, Libya and Iran, who were willing to ally with the USSR against U.S. interests. After the fall of the Soviet Union, AK-47s were sold both openly and on the black market to any group with cash, including drug cartels and dictatorial states, and most recently they have been seen in the hands of terrorist factions such as the Taliban and Al-Quaida in Afghanistan and Iraq and even FARC guerrillas in Colombia. The AK-47 has thus garnered a reputation in Western nations as a symbol of anti-Americanism, and has gained a stereotypical role as the weapon of the enemy. In the United States, movie makers often arm criminals, gang members and terrorist characters with AKs.




  2. #2
    Pious Agnost's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    It would be another gun, if not the AK.

    No single entity is responsible for the death and destruction in the ME

  3. #3
    Atatürk's Avatar Türküm. Doğruyum...
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    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alakasam View Post
    It would be another gun, if not the AK.

    No single entity is responsible for the death and destruction in the ME
    But they're the ones who supplied this gun.

    It wouldn't be another gun because nobody else supplied the Middle Eastern Militants to the extent of the Soviet Empire.

    Everywhere the US sends troops, the militants are armed with AK47s. The Viet Cong, the Taliban, the Mehdi Army, Hezbollah etc.


    It is one of the most influential weapons in modern history.

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    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    They would find another way without the gun.
    The anger would still be there, without the Soviets

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    Atatürk's Avatar Türküm. Doğruyum...
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    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alakasam View Post
    They would find another way without the gun.
    The anger would still be there, without the Soviets
    The anger would still be there, but you need something to express that anger with. The Russians provided them with the AK47s so they can express their anger through violence.

    Quote Originally Posted by fieldmarshal
    Religion.
    That's just a common western misconception.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemalraik View Post

    That's just a common western misconception.
    No not really. Religious intolerance and oppression by the ruling political and religious elite is the root of the ME problems.

    Weapons are not the problem...they are the solution. A violent solution, but still a solution.

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    Pious Agnost's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemalraik View Post
    The anger would still be there, but you need something to express that anger with. The Russians provided them with the AK47s so they can express their anger through violence.
    What's to stop them buying weapons from the Americans, or the French, or the British, or the Chinese, or the Germans, or the Indians e.t.c?

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    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    Religion.

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    Aru's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    80% of world armies use AK's.
    It's the best cheap assault rifle in the world.
    And everyone sold them, Soviets probably the least.
    China is also the major producer and exporter of AK's.
    So except in cases of proxy wars when Soviets supplied their puppets to fight American puppets, I wouldn't blame them for anything, specially not for those weapons reaching terrorists and drug cartels.
    Has signatures turned off.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    Yo blood, gunz dont keel people, people keep people.


    In all seriousness, if it wasnt the AK, it would be something else, its the current state of the region.

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    Dunecat's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    A complicated problem has a very complicated reason for its existence.

    The proliferation of the AK47 did not cause the conflicts we see today in the ME. Either you're joking or you just don't know much about the ME.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    pfft.. I'll show you the real undoer of the middle east..

    take a gander at the region below.. spot anything menacing?

    Sand! god damned sand everywhere.

    Ever noticed all those angry insurgents allways SURROUNDED by sand? NO?!

    no violence without sand it seems..

    drat! sand again!

    Damn you sand! leave these poor folk alone!

    Sand yet again!. **** you sand, you evil bastard you!

    sand is and always has been the only obstacle to peace and harmony in the middle east.. But for all the sand..
    Last edited by Von Reichgraf; March 27, 2009 at 12:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    Quote Originally Posted by Von Reichgraf View Post
    pfft.. I'll show you the real undoer of the middle east..

    take a gander at the region below.. spot anything menacing?

    Sand! god damned sand everywhere.

    Ever noticed all those angry insurgents allways SURROUNDED by sand? NO?!

    no violence without sand it seems..

    drat! sand again!

    Damn you sand! leave these poor folk alone!

    Sand yet again!. **** you sand, you evil bastard you!

    sand is and always has been the only obstacle to peace and harmony in the middle east.. But for all the sand..
    +rep mate, that's exactly what I see with this AK causality theory.

    All men had beards during the runup to the civil war, therefor, beards caused the civil war.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    Interesting point, but I believe that people, not weapons, are often responsible for death and destruction.

  15. #15
    Pious Agnost's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    Unless they are of mass destruction> ()

  16. #16

    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    Well, weapons of mass destruction are used by people with objectives as well.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    the soviet union is as responable as the US they both had proxy wars in the area and they are both as reponsable as the old colonial powers who decided borders by drawing straight lines on a map with no regard for who lived there.

  18. #18
    Domesticus
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    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    It was USSR, USA, UK, Germany, Ottomans... wich is the root of ME's problem. (technically anyone who had influence in ME)
    NOT an AK
    Sometimes both sides are wrong. Unfortunately most people do not understand this and argue endlessly.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    The OP has a point. Undoubtedly other guns would be used, if not the AK, but it definitely does make killing a lot more efficient (being so much cheaper and more durable than most equivalents).

    On the other hand, as someone mentioned, it wasn't just the SU that made and exported it....

  20. #20

    Default Re: Is the Soviet Union responsible for the death and destruction in the Middle East?

    it could also be the heat, the people living there are always hot headed, no matter what they are (Arab, Jew, Turkish, Persian) They all get mad fast, and attack you (physically or verbally) if u attack their view point.
    Vox populi, vox dei!!!
    "The voice of the people is the voice of God"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xmpBWGJ1_Y

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