About israel.

[Nirkaw]

Okay,i know most of the people here hate israel..but why?
If people here know israel history so they know people hate us since jew born,and it become worst at 1938-1945.
But still people want our death?Why?
Cuz we have country to defend ourselfs?
Our country try to do the best for Arabs in israel,Even hamas send missiles o israel from gaza,israel send to ther food,and hamas take it to himself.
Hamas kidnap soldiers.
Like this one : [IMG]‪http://www.habanim.org/download/banner/Heb/Gilad_400_80_Heb.gif[/IMG]

Israel try to bring him back 3 years,but hamas want 3000 terrorists..(Every terrorist killed like 5 jews people or more)

ANd 1 more thing,You ever saw a jew terrorist?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwM8ylfQeWY
Nice song.
(English)

[Ahlerich]

as long as israel has a army there is no requirement for jewish terrorism. they have a army that does the job more efficiently.
the disapproval against israel of today is in no way comparable with the hatred against jews in the past.

there are many people in the west that dont want to hear news of children and women burned alive. many of us find that disturbing.

[Nirkaw]

Hmm you see country without army?we have for 1 reason,Defend ourselfs
Look,we had more then 10 wars,the arabs start wars ..but in every war we won.And in some wars we had arabs ground,in Lebanon,In Egypt, But what?We bring this grounds back to Lebanon and Egypt and Jordan.

[Shmuel]

people hated jews for 2 millenia what makes you think we could ever change that .
hamas is a terrorist organizition bent on destroying the state of israel , and the death of the jewish people , all in the name of allah .
our army is bent on defending the lives of israeli citizens , and the jewish people.
and we have the right to exist just like any other country.

[Ahlerich]

yeah and the people who existed where you exist now dont have a right to exist because they are weaker.

nobody has a prob with israel defending israel.

the problems are the discrimination and provocations, settlements, etc. it has all been discussed soooooooooo many times

[Modern Crusader]

yeah and the people who existed where you exist now dont have a right to exist because they are weaker.

No, they don't have the right to exist because they willingly left the land when the Arabs told them to before attacking Israel and getting their butts kicked. That's a fact.

[GuineaPig]

People hate Israel because the 1948 war is really the only one I can think of in the last couple centuries that was played for keeps. That is, two cultures battling over a piece of land, with whoever winning it keeping it. This type of war has been out of vogue for a long time, and people aren't used to it. They say that Israel "stole" the land, that the Palestinians were unlawfully kicked out of it.

In reality, if Israel had lost the 1948 war, there would have been a mass extermination of Jews in the region. Anti-semitic violence had been rising across the region, and an unsuccessful war would've resulted in reprisals. The Arab countries rejected the two-state solution, attacked Israel, and the war was fought for keeps. People nowadays are (rightfully) opposed to wars of conquest.

Imo.

[tabacila]

People hate Israel because the 1948 war is really the only one I can think of in the last couple centuries that was played for keeps. That is, two cultures battling over a piece of land, with whoever winning it keeping it. This type of war has been out of vogue for a long time, and people aren't used to it. They say that Israel "stole" the land, that the Palestinians were unlawfully kicked out of it.

In reality, if Israel had lost the 1948 war, there would have been a mass extermination of Jews in the region. Anti-semitic violence had been rising across the region, and an unsuccessful war would've resulted in reprisals. The Arab countries rejected the two-state solution, attacked Israel, and the war was fought for keeps. People nowadays are (rightfully) opposed to wars of conquest.

Imo.

Just a little side note: you do know that Arabs are a Semitic people right? So calling them anti-semitic is like calling the Gauls anti-celtic...

[Orko]

Just a little side note: you do know that Arabs are a Semitic people right? So calling them anti-semitic is like calling the Gauls anti-celtic...

The term anti-semitic was invented to describe hatred towards Jews, not Arabs. that is the official name for jew-hating.

[Војвода Драгутин Кесеровић]

I haven't noticed that many "Israel haters" here (although, to be honest, I have noticed a great deal of Axis revisionists), I would rather say that the general attitude in TWC is anti-Zionism, and I would include myself in this category - allow me to elaborate, from the perspective of a Serb:

For starters, I reckon that every educated Jew should very much be aware of the fact that during the haShoah of the XX century - there were several categories of targeted "untermensch" - alongside the Jews and Roma, almost the entire Slavic race was categorized and targeted as such - amongst the Slavs, the people who best got to know the horrors of death camps were the Serbs (World War II persecution of Serbs). So don't nobody dare accuse me of ANY sort of anti-Semitism here.

All that being said, I very much aplaud to the zeal that your people displayed in their legitimate effort to reestablish their sovereignty in their ancestoral lands, both prior to - but especially after the WW2 event - that is to say, I consider the Zionism's primary objective to be a legitimate one and it's completion a sort of a "poethic justice" - the kind of a justice I like the most.

The problem arises with the fact that after that goal was completed, the whole set of "means to an end" (not always so legitimate btw.) that were used to complete it - were now redirected at sustaining the newborn state in an incresingly hostile enviorment. Again, perfectly legitimate cause. But as time went on, this became a problem that now manifests itself in 2 major ways:

1. Israel itself evolved in a state highly militarized, highly opressive to her Palestinian Muslim population, and on top of all a nuclear power extremely prone to unpredictable unilateral military action.

2. Not only Israel as a country, but a large majority of Jewish people all over the globe tied their faith almost simbiotically to the USA/NATO - thus aligning themselves with a hostile military alliance that exorts it's influence globaly in a manner similar to the WW2 tripartite Axis did.

Both these facts are understandable - Jews were always and still are today an integral part of European/Anglo-American cultural and political space - they endured more than a fair share of opression/supression before they established themselves financialy and politically as a strong factor on continental and global level - Zionism of old (pre WW2) is thus understandable - but now it has outdone its original purpose and is becoming a problem, as I've said, because the power it wields, both financial&political -as a global interest network & military as a state (Israel) has became highly assimetrical as compared to the genuine needs of the Jewish people.

Of course we must take into account the fundamentalists of Islam and the fact that the state of Israel is in real danger from that particular Islamic faction - however, it is questionable whether Israels enduring strategem of "putting out fire with kerozine" can bring any good on the long run...

Back to Serbo-Jewish, and wider Slaveno-Jewish relations;
With respect to their strong bond with USA/NATO - Jews are alligned against the legitimate interest of RF, the pillar of Slavic statehood and the only genuenly sovereign Slavic state in the world (has A-bomb, will not relinquish her sovereignty/resources). Due to wider NATO's strategem, Serbs, percieved (correctly) as a pillar of potential Russian influence in South-East Europe, were and still are caught up in NATO's clutch....

Serb agrivance with the Jews of Israel and Jews in general (namely the US-Jewish lobby) is next:

Whilst it could be understandable that the dismemberment of SFR Yugoslavia was in Israels's best interest - for it was the country who's communist dictator Joseph Bross was ever supportive of PLO and Arafat, and this policy continued troughout the 80's - it is proposterous how the Jewish lobby of USA did nothing to prevent the gross distortion of truth about the Yugoslav civil war in the western media (to a great extent owned and controlled by themselves) as part of anti-Serbian war propaganda - where Serbs were portrayed as "the new Nazis" and the actuall Nazis, Tudjman's Croatia founded on the revival of WW2 Ustashe ideology as the "innocent freedom loving lambs". With the honest exception of certain Jewish individuals - neither Israel or USA Jews did nothing to prevent the criminal act of NATO agression on FR Yugoslavia / Serbia in 1999. (moreover, Jews of the Democratic Party were at the spearhed of it).
Even as we speak, while Serbia is being dismembered and extreme islamic terrorists awarded for their ample service to NATO with a "sovereign state" of their own - we hear very little or no sound at all from the Jews in support of the people who once shared their faith with in the haShoah - whilst the Democrats of USA are back in buissnies to continue where they once stopped in Kosovo (their powerfull Jewish branch ever so supportive) - Israel, in all fairness still not officially recognizing the KLA-terror-"state", is practically supporting the NATO's "Kosovo project" by recognizing "Kosovo passports" as valid documents....

On a personal level, I consider the Jewish history from the fall of the Temple to the re-establishment of Israel a perfect example for the Serbs how to reclaim Kosovo, the strategem applied by the Jews in reclaiming their ancestoral lands is almost immaculate. Expirience of the modern day Israel in terms of survival in a hostile enviornment is also worth studying...

Of course, we also have our own expirience of Turkish Slavery and Serbian restauration to adress, and our own powerfull allies to rely on...

What we do not have however, is an A-bomb, so we'll obviously have to do it the hard way - provided that in the meanwhile you guys restrain yourself from nuking Iran, which would then launch a global atomic war and ruin it all for everybody.... if Israel can do that much for Serbia, we'll handle the US Democrats and their Islamist Albanian pawns on our own, so thx in advance

[Nirkaw]

Lol?you think israel dont do nothing for the arabs in israel?!
Belive me..israel do everything for them,Bring them food,water,even to gaza and hamas take it and not sharing..

[Shmuel]

i didnt say that. no will you here me say it .
we were perfectly content with the partition plan , our wish had come true , finally we will be able to rebuilt our home after 2000 years . small as it may be , but it was to be our country.
all the arab nations rejected it because we were jews, and so the war of indepandence broke out , over the years we have fought with the arab nations many wars , each of them was won by us , we trippeld the size of isarel , yet we gacve away those lands , beacuse we want peace no constant warfare.
during those 60 years , the arab nations could have assimilated the arabs who fled during 48' , and yet they are the ones who hold them in refugee camps.

[MaryPoppinCaps]

Another Israel thread...

A lot of Israelis seem to play themselves off as the good guys and Hamas is just the biggest meanie ever. I bet Hamas says the same to its people. So keep telling yourself that Israel, you are right and everyone else is wrong...

[Chaigidel]

they are right and everyone else is wrong.

[Shmuel]

where does it say the our very goal is the destruction of palestinian people , ?
hamas specificlly states in his charter that the intend to destroy our country and kill the jews.

[Chaigidel]

yep if the jews win everyone lives; if the palestinians win there will be no jews left on this earth.

the death of Israel will mean the absolute genocide of the jewish race

[Ahlerich]

yep if the jews win everyone lives; if the palestinians win there will be no jews left on this earth.

the death of Israel will mean the absolute genocide of the jewish race

right. thats why they are still around for mellennia. as if jews never could live peaceful with arabs..

[Pickle_mole]

yep if the jews win everyone lives; if the palestinians win there will be no jews left on this earth.

so blatently obvious its disgusting to see how many dont agree with this fact. Israel just wants so survive, Hamas wants to destroy Israel.

[Shmuel]

we could , we live in peace with jordan , with egypt , not with terroists however.
many times various nations tried to eliminate the jewish people.

[tabacila]

we could , we live in peace with jordan , with egypt , not with terroists however.
many times various nations tried to eliminate the jewish people.

If you're dragging ancient Egypt or the Babylonians into this I'm gonna laugh my ass off