Great Game, Great Forum, Legion Recruitment Question

[Aristotle's Folly]

Hi, I'm Danni and I discovered this game after a guy on SL (Second Life) told me about it. I liked the pictures here so much that I went out and bought Rome Total War just so I could play this game. Very addictive. I took The Roman Empire Today as a freshman and I was amazed to discover how deeply indebted we are to that culture. This game really brings that to life.

Also, this forum is great. I've been here probably a couple dozen times and every time I found what I was looking for with a simple search. So . . . good forum people! I even learned how to change the game already!

I have a question about Legion recruitment and deployment. I'm playing by the "House Rules", on Hard and Hard and my empire has expanded north into France (Gaul), into Sicily and into southern Greece. Then I got a window that said "Imperial Reforms" and I could recruit the new legions. Very cool.

But then I took a province in the north and found I could recruit Legion V (the Macedonian legion). I found it odd that I could recruit this Legion in Greece but not in Italy, since the legion was probably not raised in Macedonia (it wasn't moved there until about 13 years after its recruitment) and was probably either recruited in Italy by Pansa and Octavian to fight Marc Antony.

I've notice this will several legions, that the only way to recruit them is to do an easter egg hunt for the right (L) region (or read the map, which I learned about today, thank you very much ). I'm assuming this is for gameplay balance, but I'm wondering why we can't recruit more of the Octavion legions in Italy? How hard would it be to change that?

Just curious. Great mod, people. I have to say, I did some texturing for another game and the art work here is much, much better.

[Brusilov]

First of all welcome to the forum.

The named legions are scattered over the map, although obviously most of them are recruited in Italy itself. There are some settlements in Italy that 'share' a named legion but most of them can only be recruited from one settlement.

I presume it would be possible to mod the game to allow more than one named legion from a settlement but the Roman faction is strong enough as it is.

[Aristotle's Folly]

First of all welcome to the forum.

Thank you. It really has been an amazing help to me (this forum). Great resource.

The named legions are scattered over the map, although obviously most of them are recruited in Italy itself. There are some settlements in Italy that 'share' a named legion but most of them can only be recruited from one settlement.

I presume it would be possible to mod the game to allow more than one named legion from a settlement but the Roman faction is strong enough as it is.

I don't know if I agree with that, but you'd probably know more than me. Here's what I'm thinking:

If I follow the recruiting guidelines and only recruit one legion at a time, then my ten legions (the most I can recruit from Italy) are all I have to fight 21 Gallic armies. Also, I found this very helpful site under DVK901's signature, which nicely gives the locations for recruiting legions. You have the game over before you can recruit some legions, like Legion IV Scythica, which is recruited in Seutopolis...but I can't even find that on the map! (Ooops . . . found it . . . but it's a long way from Rome!) And the legion was levied by Antony in 42 B.C., long before some of the other legions were raised. I was thinking to raise my legions in numeric order or by date of original levy. Without changing the game, looks like I won't be doing that. Boo.

I'm not dissing on your game. It's a great game. I might just . . . change it a bit though. Sorry, my mom always said I can't leave things alone.

@ DVK901 = That actually makes sense. Silly question: Has anyone every thought of making a Roman specific plugin? If they legions are spread around for the AI, but I'm not the AI . . . see?

[nedo72]

Why is it that legions inside Italy have lower hit points such as attack and defense then legions outside Italy.

[dvk901]

The reason the Legions had to be 'scattered' is because RTW has a 32 unit limit in the recruitment que for any given region. There are 35 Legions with two units each (cohort and 1st cohort). That's 70 units just in the Legions. Along with Rome's other units, they have a boatload of units, and it would be easy to overload the ques and get CTD's. So they spread around to avois this issue. They are also spread around for balance purposes, to give the Roman AI a chance to recruit good units in other places. The AI doesn't handle an AOR very well anyway, so it 'sorta' helps it out.

It will be different in RS2, which a much more 'lenient' Legion AOR....but it still had to be limited because of the QUE limit. In fact, that limit was even worse in RS2 for every faction because there are so many more units in RS2. (500----the limit)

[Gromovnik]

Because those outside Italy are imperial legions, so they have lorica segmentata and all that stuff. It's no biggie, by the time you can recruit those, your old legions should've seasoned a bit and make it up by experience (I think the difference is just a point or two).

[dvk901]

As much as possible, Legions outside Italy were placed where they served rather than where they fought. Realistically speaking, almost ALL Legions would've been raised in and around Italy. That would give the player and AI nothing to recruit elsewhere. I readily admit the scheme is 'flawed' in RS1.5, and was meant for the methodical detail oriented player who plays long Campaigns and likes to role play. The player who wants mass armies and easy recruitment and retraining will have trouble with this...because it isn't very easy.

In RS2 the Legions will be recruited differently. Rather than recruitable by just 'a' region, they are recruitable in an 'area' of 12-15 regions. Some areas only have one Legion, others may have several....and the area they serve in is roughly based on where they historically defended the Empire. Recruitment is more 'generous', and retraining is easier as long as they stay in their area of service or close to it. The recruitment scheme is also based on the largest extent of the Roman Empire historically.....so beyond that, NO Legion is recruitable.

[Aristotle's Folly]

As much as possible, Legions outside Italy were placed where they served rather than where they fought. Realistically speaking, almost ALL Legions would've been raised in and around Italy. That would give the player and AI nothing to recruit elsewhere. I readily admit the scheme is 'flawed' in RS1.5, and was meant for the methodical detail oriented player who plays long Campaigns and likes to role play. The player who wants mass armies and easy recruitment and retraining will have trouble with this...because it isn't very easy.

Thank's for the info. I'm taking a couple of summer courses; one is an independent study history course. I showed your site to my professor and he's intrigued. I'd like to include this game in the study somehow.

I get what you're saying with the long campaigns and roll-play. Awhile back I worked on a large plugin for another game and I get the need to balance gameplay with reality. It seems to me you have a greater challenge, trying to balance a large number of nations as opposed to making just a "Roman" game. Still...maybe rollplaying can still be achieved with the legions in Italy.

What I'd like to do this summer is use this game as part of my class, but I'd like to raise the legions in the order they were actually raised, maybe try to build an empire in the same way the Romans did.

Also, game seems easy to me. Is this right? My settings are on hard. I've read that Hard is more difficult than Very Hard but if I fight the battle, don't let the computer fight it, I don't lose. Is that right?

Added: I did it! I can now recruit all 35 legions in Italy...no CTD! WooHoo! (Sorry if this seem like spam - I think I like changing this game as much as I like playing it!)

[rory o'kane]

I assume by "largest extent" you mean the permanent holdings, right? so no legions recruited in Armenia or Mesopotamia, right?

[Gromovnik]

This new system sounds awesome.

[cherryfunk]

Great mod, people. I have to say, I did some texturing for another game and the art work here is much, much better.

It's interesting when someone says this because RS2 looks sooo much better it's like a different game. You're going to be quite pleased I think when you start playing it (and Hannibal has a nasty surprise for you... )

[Aristotle's Folly]

It's interesting when someone says this because RS2 looks sooo much better it's like a different game. You're going to be quite pleased I think when you start playing it (and Hannibal has a nasty surprise for you... )

I've played with texturing a bit, in Second Life and in another game, just photoshoping stuff. Some stuff that's out there is just amazing. But then so is your stuff. Are you changing the Romans much?

One of things I noticed (if you look very closely at the screenies that were posted) is how you developed grass and flowers. I'm intrigued as to how that was done. Textures are pretty easy (pick a color, pick a layer) compared to making something that requires movement and animation. The grass in your game right now is soooo cool. It's probably silly but I think that's one of the best things about this game. When I first bought Rome Total War, I tried to play it out of the box, but I wouldn't have played it for a week without your game. Kinda boring.

So...Hannibal has a nasty surprise for me? Cool, 'cause right now, I'm crumbling up Gauls like stale bread.

[Ketchup]

Glad you like the mod! Yeah, tone has done some AMAZING work on the Romans for RS2. They far, far, surpass the ones in RS1.5.

[cherryfunk]

No, no, we're keeping the Romans exactly the same. Identical. No changes to the grass, either...

[Direwolf]

Hi Aristotle,

Just thought i'd mention that the optimum settings for the most challenging game is H/VH. The AI on battle settings is fine on VH it's just the campaign difficulty that can't be set to that.

cheers,
DW

[Aristotle's Folly]

Hi Aristotle,

Just thought i'd mention that the optimum settings for the most challenging game is H/VH. The AI on battle settings is fine on VH it's just the campaign difficulty that can't be set to that.

cheers,
DW

DW:

Thanks! But a question: the "House Rules" in the building window say to set the game H/H. I've read on this forum that H is more difficult that VH for map, but that setting the game on VH for battles also causes a kind of fake anomoly where armies that are actually weaker can win battles they shouldn't win?

I did a google search and found a lot of info on this game and Rome Total War. Very helpful since I've never actually played Rome Total War, just this game. There are a lot of YouTube videos that show you how to win battles. So with battles I'm okay. It's the map that's kinda killing me right now.

I'm playing through a campaign today and letting the AI resolve my battles so I can get an understanding of the map. I mean, armies appear out of nowhere, in the middle of your country? What is that all about? And a lot of my cities go rebel on me no matter what I build. And yeah, I'm waiting over 50 turns before I start taking countries.

I just need to understand the map better.

[chaney]

Be sure to head over to the Post Empires thread http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=113496


Also the slave armies that appear have something to do with public order, so be sure to regularly check the Settlement details scroll by double clicking a settlement and then clicking the top Icon (I think) on the bottom left hand side , This can also let you see why settlements are rebelling

[Brusilov]

DW:

Thanks! But a question: the "House Rules" in the building window say to set the game H/H. I've read on this forum that H is more difficult that VH for map, but that setting the game on VH for battles also causes a kind of fake anomoly where armies that are actually weaker can win battles they shouldn't win?

I'm playing through a campaign today and letting the AI resolve my battles so I can get an understanding of the map. I mean, armies appear out of nowhere, in the middle of your country? What is that all about? And a lot of my cities go rebel on me no matter what I build. And yeah, I'm waiting over 50 turns before I start taking countries.

I just need to understand the map better.

There is nothing wrong with playing at H/H or even M/M. Not everyone is as good at the game as the more experienced (or better) players. Play at whatever you are comfortable with. Playing at the harder difficulty levels with a small weak faction is different than playing at the same level as a powerful faction (Rome, Macedon).

I've not heard that about VH on battles. There is a problem with VH on the strategy/campaign map as the AI gets less of a bonus than they do on H (it's supposed to be ablut 10k per turn).

Although you can autoresolve battles it's far better to play them yourself. You will end up winning battles that you would have lost on autoresolve.

I only tend to autoresolve battles against very small stacks when I am using a full stack 'field army'.

Are the armies that appear on your map slave armies? It's probably caused by your population not being very happy (look at the settlement details screen to see why the population is not happy as there can be many causes).

With the building - I think it's always best to build some 'happyness' buildings early on. First priority for building is to boost the economy - roads, markets etc. I then will build up sewers before the population gets to any size as otherwise plague may break out.

Post some screens of an unhappy settlement - make sure that you include the settlement details screens as well.

[Aristedes]

I tend to fight every battle on the map, as auto resolving throws away troops that I don't loose.

For example (what I had yesterday, I had to auto-resolve because I didn't have the time left to play more. Damn parents): My Legio XVI Flavia Firma got attacked by a small army of Gauls. Don't ask my why they did, as they normally never do such a stupid thing.
Me: - 1800 men (little bit less, can't remember
Gauls: - 500 men (also a little bit less, but can't remember either)
Auto-reslove: they killed 400 men, I killed 360 (estimation again). I mean, if i would have done it on the map, I'd have lost maybe 200 men tops, and they would have been dead, all of them.

Something else I do is:
Put my light infantry on the front line (Auxilia troops) and my heavy infantry on the second line (Legionaires). Cause when the enemy hits your front, those are the men that get slaughtered first and the quickest. Therefor, as the Auxilia troops can be retrained/re-recruited anywhere, I tend to 'throw' them 'away' first. I save my legionaires for massive battles. Anyone else who does this?

[chaney]

Yes I apply this type of system also
No disrespect, But I think this is the standard formation for most players

Personally I never really Auto resolve as it waste's troops