Disney Downhill from Original?

I recently watched many of the old Walt Disney films and man they are as good as anything today or better. For instance the Little Mermaid and Aladdin are great movies that are inspiring despite their old age. I believe Disney has gone so far downhill that they never again could regain their former glory with movies such as Beauty and the Beast, Sleeping Beauty and Peter Pan.

Their movies have lost a certain "deep-ness" and seriousness in their storylines. I mean, look at "The Secret of NIHM". A great children's fable with a really mature theme to it. It made me laugh and I was genuinely scared at parts. You don't see that in their movies today.

But their movies today aren't necessarily bad, just different and more superficial.

Originally Posted by D.B. Cooper

Their movies have lost a certain "deep-ness" and seriousness in their storylines. I mean, look at "The Secret of NIHM". A great children's fable with a really mature theme to it. It made me laugh and I was genuinely scared at parts. You don't see that in their movies today.

But their movies today aren't necessarily bad, just different and more superficial.

"The Secret of NIMH" wasn't a Disney movie, it was done by Sullivan (at the time Don) Bluth Studios.

Well I mean they choose to make bull like HSM I-III instead of art which was all Walts original invention.

Disney has always had a pretty varied lineup, not always spectacular though.

There was a period in the late 80s to mid 90s when they released Little Mermaid, Aladdin, and The Lion King, when they were really awesome, and haven't been as good since. But they weren't as good before either, so you know.

Now their best movies come through Pixar. The Toy Story movies, The Incredibles, Wall-E, and Ratatouille are all awesome movies.

Originally Posted by Darth Ravenous

Well I mean they choose to make bull like HSM I-III instead of art which was all Walts original invention.

They have always made stuff like that. Like 15% of their movies are animated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_films

Originally Posted by the_mango55

Disney has always had a pretty varied lineup, not always spectacular though.

There was a period in the late 80s to mid 90s when they released Little Mermaid, Aladdin, and The Lion King, when they were really awesome, and haven't been as good since. But they weren't as good before either, so you know.

Now their best movies come through Pixar. The Toy Story movies, The Incredibles, Wall-E, and Ratatouille are all awesome movies.



They have always made stuff like that. Like 15% of their movies are animated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_films

Well matter of opinion as far as I am concerned thought they haven't had a good movie in at least a decade Pixar doesn't count it's really a seperate unit like Walt Disney Feature Animation they should be making more movies like they used to.

Disneys been goin down hill for decades, if it wasnt for Pixar they probley wouldnt have an animation department at all.

Disney weilds a frightening amount of influence - they're one of the handful of the biggest conglomerates that own most american media. However, what's scary is that they've built up this image of 'pureness' and 'innocence', so that people don't even question what kind of ideas they're indoctrinating children with.

True but can old movies like Aladdin send doctrinating thoughts? And I hope as far as Disney with it's resources is concerned get back to the old school because they were good with it.

Originally Posted by Darth Ravenous

True but can old movies like Aladdin send doctrinating thoughts? And I hope as far as Disney with it's resources is concerned get back to the old school because they were good with it.

Well they promote certain values regardless, perpetrate certain stereotypes. All media do this, it's just that Disney has so much influence on children (who are still developing their minds, obvsiouly), yet no one has thought of questioning it...

I remember seeing a documentary on the subject (can't recall the name right now, I'll look it up), where a media scholar questioned disney's influence, and there was this massive backlash, like he was disturbing something sacred...

Don't get me wrong, I love old disney cartoons (Aladdin is one of my favourites), I'm just pointing out that this is after all a huge media conglomerate, and is prone to the same faults as any other conglomerate.

Originally Posted by JustShoveJayOhBe

Anyone ever see The Prince of Egypt?

Is that the one about Moses?
I really liked it. The music and singing was great. Nice movie.

The lion king 1 was one of the best Disney movies ever made imo, since then it has gone downhill...

Pixar are the only ones who do the disney name justice.

ok im sorry im not usually critical of nostalgia, but that crap from the 90s is not old disney, old disney is everything from Snow White to stuff like Robin Hood, Black Cauldron, etc. not to mention when they actually made cartoons with their most iconic characters: Donald, Mickey, etc. How long has it been since anyone has seen any kind of show/movie with mickey mouse...? Donald Duck was a character in some of those Disney afternoon shows in the 90s, ditto Goofy, Balloo, etc... But Mickey Mouse, their friggin iconic character is basically extinct. this is disney's fundamental problem if you ask me.

But now, Disney isn't downhill otherwise. They're one and the same as Pixar now and Wall-E was an incredible film. It's also nice to see Disney surpassed every now and then, though because their formulaic stories get quite stale. Anyone ever see The Prince of Egypt? I remember seeing that in Jr. High and thinking how completely refreshing it was after watching 10 years of Disney movie/musical cartoons that butcher and distort classic stories. Ugh.

Originally Posted by JustShoveJayOhBe

ok im sorry im not usually critical of nostalgia, but that crap from the 90s is not old disney, old disney is everything from Snow White to stuff like Robin Hood

Exactly. The period of 1989 to 2002 was the "Disney Renaissance".
Which had a brilliant portfolio of amazing animated films. Say what you want, but I think The Little Mermaid was a great movie, and the accompanying prequel animated series was pretty good, too. And The Lion King was probably one of the greatest animated films of all time, along with Beauty and the Beast. Hercules stoked my interest in Greek mythology. Those films had a lasting influence on myself, and on popular culture.
Also, the animated shows Disney had during that decade were great; almost universally. There was not a Saturday morning that saw an unwatched episode of Ducktales, Darkwing Duck, Tailspin, Timon and Pumbaa, Pepper Ann, or Recess. And, I'll admit, Kim Possible ain't half bad; at least it has action and character development.

But now, Disney isn't downhill otherwise. They're one and the same as Pixar now and Wall-E was an incredible film.

True. Though it is technically a different studio, Pixar is more or less in a symbiotic relationship with Disney.
However, Disney's live action feature branch is pretty autonomous; the main part of the company doesn't care what they do as long as it brings is money. Hence why Disney Channel has been able to churn out crap with no artistic value but great commercial potential (things before 2002, and the Pirates films excluded, of course). While Disney's animation studio is still in line with making quality products. Even old Disney Channel (up to the early 2000's) made good stuff; it gets overshadowed by the large amount of Disney Channel crap, but it exists. Basically, after 2002, their television wing went downhill. But not all of Disney.

Anyone ever see The Prince of Egypt?

Saw it. I thought the voice acting was perfect, and nailed every character right. But, at the same time, I did not like the protagonists; Moses came off as an unreasonable, overly-nationalist douchebag. I sympathised with Pharaoh Ramesses II, who was only trying to serve the best interests of his people and state, like any good king.

Originally Posted by Darth Ravenous

What about Goofy, Donald Duck, Pete, and other elite Disney characters they are all good too.

Thankfully, we have SquareEnix to keep them alive.

I would vote up and down - comes and goes. Depends what you are judging on really. Take Robin Hood I like the animation but the movie is bad. Many of the 'classics' are hopelessly dated story wise - I mean I like Seeping Beauty the best for it animations but the end with its endless series of 'god from the machine interventions' to make Philip succeed is nauseating. I liked Mulan but it is has the the same problem as Aladdin a sidekick character that is simply a famous actor playing his shtick - Eddy Murphy or Robin Williams - that is frankly something I really cannot stand (LM did it too but at least it was constrained and Buddy Hacket never did anything vasty out of place or time or anachronistic for the movie's setting). I would defiantly give a nod to Lion King for Scar's 'Triumph of Will' song number.

Anyway sorry I also have kids and have seen evey Disney movie just a few too many times to be a fair judge at this point I can hardly watch the ones I used to like.

However I will say I love the Goofy CD my kids have. In particualr I love the episode where he stays home to give his wife the day off and it is implied she is doing at least some serous flirting (at minimum) with every delivery guy...

Beauty and the Beast is probably the best animated movie ever made, Little Mermaid wasn't as good, nor was Mulan, nor was Pocahontas, nor was Aladdin.

But all of those movies were amazing too. Some of their new stuff is almost as good, but most of it's utter trash. Wall-E, Finding Nemo and Ratatouille all came pretty close to the Little Mermaid era stuff that didn't suck.

Asides from their stroke of brief genius from 1989 to about 2001.. Disney itself really is an utterly useless company that seems to a be a parasite on modern pop culture. Just look at how they try tp get their grubby hands in absolutely everything. Like the Disney channel for example, ers.

Also to the guy above, Prince of Egypt is probably my second favorite animated film of all time. That movie was PURE genius, it's portrayal of ancient Egyptian culture was superior to that of the Mummy movies, certainly.

Originally Posted by Osceola

Beauty and the Beast is probably the best animated movie ever made, Little Mermaid wasn't as good, nor was Mulan, nor was Pocahontas, nor was Aladdin.

But all of those movies were amazing too. Some of their new stuff is almost as good, but most of it's utter trash. Wall-E, Finding Nemo and Ratatouille all came pretty close to the Little Mermaid era stuff that didn't suck.

Asides from their stroke of brief genius from 1989 to about 2001.. Disney itself really is an utterly useless company that seems to a be a parasite on modern pop culture. Just look at how they try tp get their grubby hands in absolutely everything. Like the Disney channel for example, ers.

Whats great is that time period of brief genius is literally my childhood, I feel so entitled. Born in in 1989, 10 years old when the period ended in 1999.

The Disney Renaissance (1989 - 1999) was an era when the Walt Disney Animation Studios returned to making successful animated films based on fairy tales, recreating a public and critical interest in the Disney studio.[1] These animated films include The Little Mermaid, The Rescuers Down Under, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, The Lion King, Pocahontas, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Hercules, Mulan, and Tarzan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Renaissance

^^^ Thats my entire childhood right there.



Also, its pretty much universally agreed that "The Lion King" was the best animated movie ever made.

The Lion King still holds the record as the highest grossing traditionally animated film in history[4] and belongs to an era known as the Disney Renaissance.[5]
The Lion King is regarded as a landmark in animation,[6] and received positive reviews from critics, who praised the film for its music and story. During its release in 1994, the film grossed more than $783 million worldwide, becoming the most successful film released that year, and it is currently the twenty-fourth highest-grossing feature film.
A musical film, The Lion King garnered two Academy Awards for its achievement in music and the Golden Globe Award for Best Motion Picture - Musical or Comedy. Songs were written by composer Elton John and lyricist Tim Rice, with an original score by Hans Zimmer.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_King


EDIT:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Originally Posted by Duke

Last turely great Disney film was Lion King.

Yes there is Toy Story and those CGI films but I don't consider them the same. Those are really the child of Pixar not Disney.

Fantasia is of course the greatest of all Disney films.

Fantasia was another favorite of mine as a kid, very revolutionary as well.

Yes, it has. Disney used to be clean family entertainment. Now it's filled with adult themes... just look at the original cover of The Little Mermaid...

We know whose alt you are, post with your real identity in this topic please.

Also, we grow weary your attention mongering "moralism".

Last turely great Disney film was Lion King.

Yes there is Toy Story and those CGI films but I don't consider them the same. Those are really the child of Pixar not Disney.

Fantasia and Jungle Book are of course the greatest of all Disney films.