No reload penalty for cannon ammo change?

**Barabus** · March 24, 2009, 07:48 PM

So I just noticed this last night, I was in a pitched naval battle and my 2nd rate had just dispatched the first of two 4th rates, as I wheeled around to take their mast down with some chain shot I moused over and noticed they were very low on men, i clicked to change to grape mid volley and it actually changed the last 1/3 of the volley to grape. This just doesn't seem right, changing the ammo in a cannon isn't a simple matter, especially a cannon that has been fired many times and is probably a couple of hundred degrees to the touch.

I don't know the specifics of how long it would take, but I am guessing in the day it was quicker to discharge the cannon and then reload it rather than try to unload and reload. And you certainly shouldn't be able to change mid volley.

Just my two cents.

**Miganto** · March 24, 2009, 08:24 PM

Aye, i've noticed it too. They should add some kind of 'if shot is changed, start reload process/timer again' in to the code.

**Hellman109** · March 24, 2009, 08:40 PM

Its one of those 'its not historically correct, but makes sense for a game' type things.

If you had to change it BEFORE they started reloading then that would be annoying as a gamer.

A realism patch will probably change it at some point.

**akinkhoo** · March 24, 2009, 08:42 PM

If you had to change it BEFORE they started reloading then that would be annoying as a gamer.

If I don't have to change it BEFORE they started reloading then that would be annoying to me. seriously when you click on it they should reload.

**Malkuth** · March 24, 2009, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by akinkhoo

If I don't have to change it BEFORE they started reloading then that would be annoying to me. seriously when you click on it they should reload.

You can't reload a cannon. It would take too long in game terms. Once a round is loaded its you either shoot it, or you SOL.

**Lethaface** · March 24, 2009, 08:55 PM

For MP battles it can be very annoying to see that cav charge in time but in the chaos of battle have not enough time to pre-load the grapeshot

**snuggans** · March 24, 2009, 09:01 PM

again, this is another touch that might have been welcomed and quite possible in another dimension, but when the game itself is unfinished . . .

**MoonPolice** · March 24, 2009, 10:55 PM

Don't have a problem with it. We don't need another reason for people to rely exclusively on Mortars.

**Soryn Arkayn** · March 25, 2009, 12:01 AM

I agree, there needs to be a reload penalty for switching ammo. It's an unfair exploit to be able to switch ammo types at any moment.

My suggestion is to make the change ammo type time be about half the ordinary reload time.

I don't think a cannon's ammo can be extracted after it's loaded unless it's fired, so realistically, unless the order to change ammo is given immediately after the cannons are fired, changing the ammo should have to wait for the next shot to clear the cannons.

But I'd be satisfied with a few second delay to reload the cannons with the different ammo.

**The_Dude** · March 25, 2009, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by Soryn Arkayn

I agree, there needs to be a reload penalty for switching ammo. It's an unfair exploit to be able to switch ammo types at any moment.

while i agree that there should be a penalty for switching ammo i dont see how this would be an "unfair exploit". it affects everybody.

**Frederf** · March 25, 2009, 02:14 AM

Unless your strategic composition does not rely on quick changing ammo types and your opponent's does.

**upsettingshorts** · March 25, 2009, 02:22 AM

I don't think there should be some sort of time penalty, but that your ammo change should just take effect on the next shot.

**akinkhoo** · March 25, 2009, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by tdpatriots12

I don't think there should be some sort of time penalty, but that your ammo change should just take effect on the next shot.

good idea.

**Mithradates** · March 25, 2009, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by tdpatriots12

I don't think there should be some sort of time penalty, but that your ammo change should just take effect on the next shot.

Sounds good.

**Kazang** · March 25, 2009, 02:53 AM

Changing ammo quickly does make sense. The the powder/charge is what takes time to load, not the actual shot. The shot is loaded at the last second before they fire. With the bore size of 18th century cannon the shot didn't need much help to go down the barrel, it would go down pretty fast on its own. Canister would need a poke to get it down, but only one and that wouldnt take more than 2 seconds for a good gunner.

By adding a penalty(having to go through the whole reload again) it just makes the idea changing shot mid battle a chore and not worth the time lost, thus removing a tactical aspect out of combat as you will just have to keep one type of shot loaded.

For example your cannon is bombarding the enemy at range with solid shot, the cav starts charging your cannon, you switch to canister shot, but wait, now you have to reload..........
Yo would have to do one or the other, bombard the enemy to force him to attack and then lose your arty to the first charge, or stay with close range ammo loaded and what?

From a gameplay point of view, more micromanagement of arty is not a good thing its already very slow to load the cannons, limber/un-limber, get them to actually fire instead of looking at their feet.......

It does make sense for the shot type loading to be instant or near instant at least, perhaps a 3-4 second delay would be appropriate but then you are just nit picking anyway.

**Barabus** · March 25, 2009, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Kazang

Changing ammo quickly does make sense. The the powder/charge is what takes time to load, not the actual shot. The shot is loaded at the last second before they fire. With the bore size of 18th century cannon the shot didn't need much help to go down the barrel, it would go down pretty fast on its own. Canister would need a poke to get it down, but only one and that wouldnt take more than 2 seconds for a good gunner.

I am not saying that it takes long to load them, but rather, if you have loaded round shot into said 18th century cannon, and then your commander says, load grape, you need to extract that round shot from a super heated cannon, then grab your canister shot and ram it home. That extraction should either take a moment of time (not sure how you would extract the shot other than discharge and complete reload or tilting the barrel towards the ground, which probably wouldn't work for a canister...chances are you might need to repack the charge a bit). Regardless of the choice, it shouldn't be instantaneous for you to switch ammo after your cannon is loaded.

**Pink Beard** · March 25, 2009, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Kazang

Changing ammo quickly does make sense. The the powder/charge is what takes time to load, not the actual shot. The shot is loaded at the last second before they fire. With the bore size of 18th century cannon the shot didn't need much help to go down the barrel, it would go down pretty fast on its own. Canister would need a poke to get it down, but only one and that wouldnt take more than 2 seconds for a good gunner.

By adding a penalty(having to go through the whole reload again) it just makes the idea changing shot mid battle a chore and not worth the time lost, thus removing a tactical aspect out of combat as you will just have to keep one type of shot loaded.

For example your cannon is bombarding the enemy at range with solid shot, the cav starts charging your cannon, you switch to canister shot, but wait, now you have to reload..........
Yo would have to do one or the other, bombard the enemy to force him to attack and then lose your arty to the first charge, or stay with close range ammo loaded and what?

From a gameplay point of view, more micromanagement of arty is not a good thing its already very slow to load the cannons, limber/un-limber, get them to actually fire instead of looking at their feet.......

It does make sense for the shot type loading to be instant or near instant at least, perhaps a 3-4 second delay would be appropriate but then you are just nit picking anyway.

Now, for realism sake, what if you just pushed a cannonball in, how in god's name would u get it out? Turn the cannon upside down?! lmao.
It's possible but far faster and easier to fire and reload new ammo

**Tepok** · March 25, 2009, 05:53 AM

It might have been planned by the admiral that the first part of the volley would be chains, and the last part grape, before reloading. The fact that you chose that change mid-volley simply represents that

In land battles, canons should be re-loaded with ammo changes IMHO, but I can't find why I find this to feel natural to me... [puzzled]

**GaMMwl** · March 25, 2009, 07:17 AM

I think its fine as it is. Gameplay wise it could become very frustrating that you'll have to watch the cannons closely and put a lot of effort into timing their shots.

**Frederf** · March 26, 2009, 01:47 AM

I'm with Kazang, believing that this is representative of keeping ammo type choice down to the last moment as well as artillery sergeants that could be given detailed orders and allowed some level of autonomous action.

Honestly fire at will is a horrible way to run cannons and I really have to manually direct them for friendly-fire safety and effectiveness. The biggest problem is that there's no UI indication of reload status so I have to manually look for them to be shuffling around or not which means too much of the game at pause or slo-mo.