how many Indiamen is enough?

**ryanofborg** · March 23, 2009, 05:21 PM

Just curious, should I go for as many trade nodes as I can, or should I just concentrate on a few and fully stack Indiamen on them or a bit of both?

I'm playing the British right now and will likely play as the Dutch next round. Thanks!

**coman** · March 23, 2009, 05:34 PM

120.

**ryanofborg** · March 23, 2009, 05:44 PM

Are you being facetious or do I really need as many as I can make?

**foolfromhell** · March 23, 2009, 05:45 PM

I'd like to know as well.

Thanks.

**roy34543** · March 23, 2009, 05:46 PM

I would say 16 is a reasonable number, try and control 2 whole trade areas.

**coman** · March 23, 2009, 05:53 PM

Per my guide here:

I recommend you move fast recruiting ships out from turn 1 to the various trade regions. Place a brig or a sloop on the trade post early, so you don't have to go to war to get one. As France or England you can generally claim a monopoly. As a tiny region like Prussia, you'd be lucky to get 4 spots by turn 12. By then they are all closed up and war is your only option.

Then once you've made your claim, try and get an Indiaman to the spot.

For more details on how trade works, read the guide linked above.

Your trade will go up based on the number of trade ports, trade alliances and open sea lanes you have. Many people take Tobago and the Leeward Islands from the Pirates early to help speed along trade development.

Each trade region has 5 trade posts. If you have 4 trade ships and 4 trade posts of the same kind available, you will earn exactly the same amount in trade as the value of those exports (per the guide) is based on the available market for the goods. You can import all the ivory and sugar you want, but without a customer, it just sits in your central warehouses back home.

**ryanofborg** · March 23, 2009, 06:19 PM

Very helpful guide, thank you.

**bamjo** · March 23, 2009, 06:58 PM

There are diminishing returns on each ship you add to a trade post. There is no set number that is the best. It all depends on ship upkeep and the value of the trade good.

There comes a point where the trade increase per ship is LESS than the upkeep of the ship itself. This can happen rather quickly if you are using high upkeep fluyts/galleons and the trade good is low value.

In all my games the price of sugar tends to fall over time, perhaps because there are many plantations that produce it in addition to the trade posts. Spice is initially the best trade good, but it is usually surpassed by ivory by midgame. I find ivory is the best long term investment, and even starting relatively late in the trade game you can usually find spots in the two ivory trade zones.

As a general rule I park 5 ships on every post I can, then add more to the high value ones.

**coman** · March 23, 2009, 08:25 PM

Bamjo,

The value is dependent on how many shares of items are being consumed. The price that goes up and down is an estimate, not factual. It is used to determine your general value on that trade post and also to see the enemies.

If you build more central trade ports or your trade partner expands their imports from your market, those values go up. I often see 3-6k per shipping trade port by 1730.

No one grows ivory - yet.

**Frederf** · March 23, 2009, 10:06 PM

I had no idea you could reserve a trade post by putting a sloop on it (at least until patch makes AI more aggressive about those spots).

**Eastern Weasel** · March 23, 2009, 10:13 PM

around 4-5 indiamen per trade node seems reasonable enought for me, with flyuts and galleons I would stick to 3 to keep it most upkeep cost effective.

**Gattamelata** · March 24, 2009, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by Eastern Weasel

around 4-5 indiamen per trade node seems reasonable enought for me, with flyuts and galleons I would stick to 3 to keep it most upkeep cost effective.

This raises an interesting point. I don't understand the point of building Galleons and Fluyts. As far as pure trading purposes, Indiamen are the clear bargain with their tiny 50 florin upkeep. I understand that Galleons and Fluyts are better warships than Indiamen, but so are pure warships.

From my limited experimentation, it didn't seem that a Galleon brings more goods back from a trade theatre, so I'm not sure why one would build a Galleon instead of an Indiaman.

I do understand that Fluyts are a decent warship for the Dutch in the early game due to their lack of shipyards.

**Eastern Weasel** · March 24, 2009, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by Gattamelata

This raises an interesting point. I don't understand the point of building Galleons and Fluyts. As far as pure trading purposes, Indiamen are the clear bargain with their tiny 50 florin upkeep. I understand that Galleons and Fluyts are better warships than Indiamen, but so are pure warships.

From my limited experimentation, it didn't seem that a Galleon brings more goods back from a trade theatre, so I'm not sure why one would build a Galleon instead of an Indiaman.

I do understand that Fluyts are a decent warship for the Dutch in the early game due to their lack of shipyards.

Well, galleons and flyuts bring back same amount of income on trade node, but their advantage over indiamen is that they actually can defend themself so you dont have to pay upkeep for defence fleet. Now, I know that for some reason AI dont attack your ships on trade nodes (except for pirates I think), but thats an AI bug that hopefully it get fixed. Also you can send galleons and flyuts directly into trade theaters at game start, without the need of sending fleet of battleships there first to mop up pirates.

**coman** · March 24, 2009, 02:24 AM

All trade ships of any size or make represent 1 trade unit. So spam dhows. Evil little bastards.

**nepereta** · March 24, 2009, 04:22 AM

I have used in excess of 8 or so in each trade point so far. Each additional one seems to make profit of 100 ( but this is decreasing) or so when added to the stack so I am still adding them. Although I might stop soon because spending money on increasing finished goods, fur, tea and tobbacco production. Will have a better return since sending the ship out now is gonna take 2 (india) to 5 (north europe) turns (150 florins + 500 florins initial ) means 6 or 7 turn return on investment when the ship actually lands So you could be looking at a Return on Investment of 12 turns for a ship from a scottish port. I have no idea how hard it is for a turkish trade ship to hit home ( probably take ages) Which will only increase as profit margins drop due to oversupply and diminishing returns.

**foolfromhell** · March 23, 2009, 11:08 PM

I'm new to the game and I have only played Marathas. I'm using Dhows. If I put 2 Dhows in the same port, it's more effective than 1 Dhow? Do Marathas have trade ships stronger than Dhows? I managed to get control of half the ports in each province and all ports except 1 in Madagascar. I need to put more Dhows in them?

**Gattamelata** · March 24, 2009, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by foolfromhell

I'm new to the game and I have only played Marathas. I'm using Dhows. If I put 2 Dhows in the same port, it's more effective than 1 Dhow? Do Marathas have trade ships stronger than Dhows? I managed to get control of half the ports in each province and all ports except 1 in Madagascar. I need to put more Dhows in them?

You don't need to, but you can stack up to ten ships in each trade node. Each additional ship increases the amount of resources brought back to your capital. Since the AI seems not to be able to attack trade nodes, it's most advantageous to concentrate first on getting one ship in each trade node that you can. Then once all the trade nodes are full, start stacking them.

It's a tedious process, and can mean dodging pirates in the early game. I eventually lose patience for the endless Indiaman shuffle and all the micromanagement involved, but by that time I am usually quite wealthy