A Dialogue with Lebanon's Ayatollah

[Major.Stupidity]

Here's an interview of Muhammad Hussein Fadhlullah, considered by some somewhat erroneously to be the spiritual leader of Hizbullah. Fadhlullah's rejection of Vilayet el- Viqh is interesting, especially considering many tend to associate 12-er Shi'ism with the Rule of the Jurists. What are your thoughts on the interview?

[Каие]

Very interesting character.

Most interested about this: It's good he believes that the people rule, and the leaders serve. I agree.

"We hope that that the elections will be as free as in civilized nations. Our problem in the Arab world is that people fear their rulers and therefore fall short of changing them, whereas the natural course of things is that rulers should fear their peoples. . . . We appreciate the way elections are run in America or the West; the Americans or the Europeans are not frozen over one personality. They study the success or failure of this president or this administration, and therefore they change it from time to time."

This is reassuring too.

"I don't believe that Welayat al-Faqih has any role in Lebanon," Mr. Fadhlullah says without hesitation. "Perhaps some Lebanese commit themselves to the policy of the Guardian Jurist, as some of them commit themselves to the policy of the Vatican [Lebanon's large Maronite community is Catholic]. My opinion is that I don't see the Guardianship of the Jurist as the definitive Islamic regime."

When a Muslim goes to vote should he care more about a cleric's opinion than anyone else's?

Then the answer gets more interesting: "We do not reject the West. But we disagree with some Western administrations. We believe that America is not the administration ruling America. America is rather the universities, the research centers and the American people. That is why we want to be friends with the American people with all their variation. I was the first Islamic figure to denounce what happened on September 11. I issued a press release after four hours saying that this affair is not acceptable by any mind, divine law or religion. What these people did was directed to the American people not to the American administration."

This is interesting to me. To all those who think Islam is incompatible with the ballot box....

"He should care about his own stance . . . . The Islamic idea says: When you cast your ballot, you have to watch for God because God will hold you responsible for the results of this ballot. If the person you voted for was unjust, God will hold you accountable for participating in his injustice. . . . Hence, the Americans who voted for George Bush are responsible for all the blood shed in his wars and occupations."

Here is where I absolutely agree with him, and the reason I oppose such interventions.

"Could democracy be forced upon peoples?

These people may be abhorrent to us, but they can be negotiated with, and compromise and common ground can be found. If this guy is there spiritual leader, Hezbollah can be turned around. All those screaming high ho "Hezbollah is against democracy, freedom etc. wants to kill us all etc. so we can;t talk to them, just shoot and be with it" It's quite clear they are wrong, we can talk to them and achieve an agreement that will suit us all.



Personally I think those who don;t want to talk to Hezbollah are scared. Scared that we may actually get a peace. Peace is unfamiliar, people are afraid of the unfamiliar.

[roy34543]

Very interesting character, Its extremely interesting how he believes that hizballah is effectively useless if the lebeneese army got better.

[Каие]

Exactly why we should fix up their army. It was sad to see them sit by and watch their country burn when Israel attacked and not be able to do anything about it.

[Farnan]

He seems similar to Sistani.

[Major.Stupidity]

He seems similar to Sistani.

Thats untrue for a couple of reasons, Sistanti as described in the article is a rival, moreover, Sistani is as conservative as they come, the only reason he is labled a "moderate" is because he doesn't advocate violence against the American occupation in Iraq.

[Каие]

He was described as a rival.

[roy34543]

Exactly why we should fix up their army. It was sad to see them sit by and watch their country burn when Israel attacked and not be able to do anything about it.

Id imagine that has more to do with the government in power wanting to get rid of hizballah then it does with their armies incomptence (though it is incomptent, and your right it should be fixed up, just dont think it ever will be when every political party there wants to use force to beat the crap out of the other parties, or at least reserve the option)

[Каие]

The government (and people) supports Hezbollah against Israel though. I think it was a genuine case of inability. Hezbollah is a guerilla militia, the Lebanese army is poor at best.

[roy34543]

The government (and people) supports Hezbollah against Israel though. I think it was a genuine case of inability. Hezbollah is a guerilla militia, the Lebanese army is poor at best

But imagine what a windfall it would be for the lebeneese army and the government in power if hizballah was proved just as incomptent. It didnt turn out that way of course.

[Каие]

Then the people would turn to more radical options.

[roy34543]

Then the people would turn to more radical options

Was i somewhat unclear? If its proven that hizballah is incomptent at defending lebanon, and would get destroyed, Then the lebeneese people would have to resort to what they have left, Diplomacy with their government in power. If Hizballah would have been unable to stop israel, then what could they do thats more radical that would? Party of god number 2 ? If it didnt work the first time why keep trying it?

[Farnan]

Sistani also opposes rule by Juror and is pro-democracy.

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

Sistani also opposes rule by Juror and is pro-democracy.

The Shi'ite orthodoxy does not oppose elections, generally speaking. However, they recognize supreme authority in matters of foreign policy, defense and Shari'ah Law as within the sphere of power of the unelected scholars only.

Personally I think those who don;t want to talk to Hezbollah are scared. Scared that we may actually get a peace. Peace is unfamiliar, people are afraid of the unfamiliar.

Rome, when it comes to "democracy," the West only wants to see it where it will result in a pro-West government. This is especially true for the Middle-East. In any election in Lebanon that is truly free from foreign intervention, Hezbollah would at least have a third of all the seats in parliament. After the last elections, they could only get a member in the cabinet following a siege (by protesters) of the capital.

[Каие]

Rome, when it comes to "democracy," the West only wants to see it where it will result in a pro-West government. This is especially true for the Middle-East. In any election in Lebanon that is truly free from foreign intervention, Hezbollah would at least have a third of all the seats in parliament.

This seems far-fetched to me, is their any evidence of this vote fixing?

After the last elections, they could only get a member in the cabinet following a siege (by protesters) of the capital.

You're not automatically guaranteed a place in the cabinet just for getting votes, that's not how coalitions work. There must be an agreement between parties. In the case of Hezbollah they were given two cabinet ministers in the coalition. The reason for the siege last year and stand-off was because one of those ministers was sacked by the Prime Ministers, his absolute authority to do so. I think it was bad form to resort to violence and intimidation when one is sacked from the position, that;s how politics works. Unless you have a majority you must compromise.

Same thing happened with Hamas in Palestine. They entered a coalition with Fatah splitting the seats before them, and as part of the deal to be in the PNA executive, you must recognise the current agreements that were signed by Palestine with Israel and anyone else. Hamas refused to do so, and were legally sacked by the President, all within his constitutional authority to do so. Now Hamas, in any other civilised country, would go into opposition against whatever the next coalition is. Instead they choose to violently attack.

Look at Israel. Kadima won the election, but since Likud will form the government due to the coalition element. Kadima hasn;t started killing Likud members in the streets in a simulated civil war, killing their own people.

[Treize]

A non-insane cleric

[Grof]

great article. the man says allot of interesting things, you can see that he has great experience in life and politics.

[motiv-8]

Hmm, where is Vince Noir?

[motiv-8]

Believe it or not, there are actually lots and lots of them. :o

In the case of Hezbollah they were given two cabinet ministers in the coalition. The reason for the siege last year and stand-off was because one of those ministers was sacked by the Prime Ministers, his absolute authority to do so. I think it was bad form to resort to violence and intimidation when one is sacked from the position, that;s how politics works. Unless you have a majority you must compromise.

I technically agree with you, but we must keep in mind the specific Lebanese context. Hizbollah as the main Shi'a party is ultimately going to feel rather threatened by such a move due to the legacy of the civil war, that is the near total disenfranchisement of that entire community for the first half-century plus of the country's existence. I understand why they would be reluctant to lose any ground gained. I feel that as things progress their stances will (continue to) tone down.

[Каие]

Of course in the context of Lebanon in which each party reminiscent of 1930's Germany has some kind of militia it is more complicated then as I put it, but I was only answering the implication that the West was somehow keeping them down. Another thing I;d add onto your point is that the Shia cannot be the executive Prime Minister.