Faith Schools

[Desperado †]

I strongly think that faith schools are a bad idea. Until the 1960's Australian society was strongly divided into Catholic and Protestant. The Australian Catholic Church was against Catholics attending state school, which was mostly Protestant. When a sudden influx of Catholic migrants put strain on the Catholic schools, the Church became more relaxed about it's rules. Catholic children started attending Protestant schools. Not only this, but Protestant parents started sending their children to Catholic schools, which were renowned for their high standards. Tony, who grew up in this Australia, like most politicians failed to learn his history, and did nothing to solve the religious schools problem in Britain save rename it to 'faith' schools, which sounds fluffier and nicer. I think the government should try to discourage faith schools.

The logic is simple. If Muslims attend a special school, closed behind large doors, people will wonder what goes on behind those doors. The lack of understanding causes rumours and fear, which in turn cause prejudice. Kids who grow up away from these Muslims wont realise that their just the same as they are, save their religion. Lack of communication and contact causes more lies and tension. Everyday in my school I hear kids refer to Muslims as terrorists, and various Jew jokes. But since some more black pupils started attending our school, the 'n' word has completely died out. And I can imagine the situation in America can only be worse, where not only is there more segregation but there's lack of religious education in the state schools, which in turn leads to more ignorance and more rumours and more fear and more hatred.

[Viking Prince]

I would rather a parent make decision rather than the state.

[Desperado †]

I would rather a parent make decision rather than the state.

The parent elects the state, the state makes the decisions. It's how democracy works.

Not only this, but poorer parents don't get the choice of sending their children to private faith schools. I'd rather equal education for all children, with no distinction between class, race or faith.

[Groenepuntmuts]

Personally, I'm against religious schools because it goes against freedom of religion. as parents choose the schools for their children the children won't have any choice, and if it's a religious school, no choice in religion. a 4 year old (the age Dutch children are send to primary school) cannot decide what religion to follow, and teaching a certain religion when they're that young is therefore immoral and unethical. they can choose for themselves when they're older.

Altough a government can and should not check how religion is forced upon children at home, schools at least, are and should be the property of government.

and hopefully, enough education will teach them to stay clear from any religion at all...

[Dr. Croccer]

Personally, I'm against religious schools because it goes against freedom of religion. as parents choose the schools for their children the children won't have any choice, and if it's a religious school, no choice in religion. a 4 year old (the age Dutch children are send to primary school) cannot decide what religion to follow, and teaching a certain religion when they're that young is therefore immoral and unethical. they can choose for themselves when they're older.

Altough a government can and should not check how religion is forced upon children at home, schools at least, are and should be the property of government.

and hopefully, enough education will teach them to stay clear from any religion at all...

Religious schools don't convert you. They spend more time regarding religion and religion itself is important but in most you aren't forced to follow these.

The majority of Atheists I know went to religious schools.

[IrishHitman]

Religious schools don't convert you. They spend more time regarding religion and religion itself is important but in most you aren't forced to follow these.

The majority of Atheists I know went to religious schools.

Whether they concentrate on religion or not isn't the only problem.

Religiously segregated schooling merely promotes the idea of religious labeling, which can and does lead to problems.
How are we meant to integrate immigrants and insure religious harmony when society is deliberately divided along religious lines on the most basic level?

[Alkarin]

Personally, I'm against religious schools because it goes against freedom of religion. as parents choose the schools for their children the children won't have any choice, and if it's a religious school, no choice in religion. a 4 year old (the age Dutch children are send to primary school) cannot decide what religion to follow, and teaching a certain religion when they're that young is therefore immoral and unethical. they can choose for themselves when they're older.

Altough a government can and should not check how religion is forced upon children at home, schools at least, are and should be the property of government.

and hopefully, enough education will teach them to stay clear from any religion at all...

this...completely correct.

Besides if the parents want to convert their children. let them do it on their own time. its their responsibility to teach them. not the schools

[Viking Prince]

this...completely correct.

Besides if the parents want to convert their children. let them do it on their own time. its their responsibility to teach them. not the schools

I have more "faith" in a parent to make that decision for their own children than any government official or member of this site. Sorry.

In case the members here have not realized the government is to fund education for the purpose of giving opportunity to those too poor to do so on their own dime. For the government to second guess the parents would be an unfortunate error.

[Desperado †]

I have more "faith" in a parent to make that decision for their own children than any government official or member of this site. Sorry.

In case the members here have not realized the government is to fund education for the purpose of giving opportunity to those too poor to do so on their own dime. For the government to second guess the parents would be an unfortunate error.

If we all went to state schools, those to poor to afford private education might get better education.

Schools with poorer kids tend not to do as well in grades, because they tend not to have parents with the time and money to help them outside of school also. You also tend to get kids that miss-behave more. Bad schools don't attract good teachers. The situation gets worse. The good teachers go to private schools, the poorer kids don't get as fair an education. This is the extreme situation, but it happens on a smaller scale all the time.

[NONOPUST]

If we all went to state schools, those to poor to afford private education might get better education.

Hmm very good point, I did not think of this when I stated my earlier view

[Eastern Roman]

I'm against religious schools because religion is a joke.

[Pickle_mole]

I'm against religious schools because religion is a joke.

ok

[Musthavename]

Faith schools should be totally banned.

Schools should definetly teach a bit about most religions, but taught to know other people's belief's and respect them. But apart from that, religion should not come into the education system in any way. All faith schools do that a normal school can't is cause segragation between religious groups.

[Nietzsche]

If you make the state responsible for education, eventually the education will be conducive to the power of the state. Pretty sure the Chinese have this well formatted, as well as the former Soviet Union. Originally, and Constitutionally, the State and/or Federal government has no business in the education of the citizen body. The idea that the State should establish schools is a fallacy built on years of Marxist dogma seeping into modern democracy. The argument that the state can solely be responsible for good education is laughable in the face of the tragedy that is our modern public school system. Private schools consistently outperform, and outperform by a very long way. The only thing public schools are good at doing is making thousands of underachieving taxpayers that can be manipulated by propaganda.

+rep AGAIN to Viking Prince.

[Desperado †]

If you make the state responsible for education, eventually the education will be conducive to the power of the state. Pretty sure the Chinese have this well formatted, as well as the former Soviet Union. Originally, and Constitutionally, the State and/or Federal government has no business in the education of the citizen body. The idea that the State should establish schools is a fallacy built on years of Marxist dogma seeping into modern democracy. The argument that the state can solely be responsible for good education is laughable in the face of the tragedy that is our modern public school system. Private schools consistently outperform, and outperform by a very long way. The only thing public schools are good at doing is making thousands of underachieving taxpayers that can be manipulated by propaganda.

+rep AGAIN to Viking Prince.

Compare the ratio of children that have private education to state education in Britain to the American ratio, then compare how much better your average British childs education is to your average American child. You'll be suprised.

You could also compare your average evil communist Cubans health to your average Americans health while your at it.

[Nietzsche]

Compare the ratio of children that have private education to state education in Britain to the American ratio, then compare how much better your average British childs education is to your average American child. You'll be suprised.

You could also compare your average evil communist Cubans health to your average Americans health while your at it.

Again. Apples and Oranges. With GB and US, You cannot compare the two as they are different countries with different socio-political makeups. They have vastly different educational concerns and needs.

As for your comment about the Cuban health system, I almost spit my coffee out laughing. I have no wish to continue this debate with you further. If you support El Presidente that's fine, join the revolution. Out here in the real world, social engineering doesn't work and thousands of Cubans flee every year and wash up on American beaches.

[Groenepuntmuts]

the majority of Atheists I know went to religious schools.

As did I, but the point remains that religion has no place in education.

If you make the state responsible for education, eventually the education will be conducive to the power of the state. Pretty sure the Chinese have this well formatted, as well as the former Soviet Union. Originally, and Constitutionally, the State and/or Federal government has no business in the education of the citizen body. The idea that the State should establish schools is a fallacy built on years of Marxist dogma seeping into modern democracy. The argument that the state can solely be responsible for good education is laughable in the face of the tragedy that is our modern public school system. Private schools consistently outperform, and outperform by a very long way. The only thing public schools are good at doing is making thousands of underachieving taxpayers that can be manipulated by propaganda.

+rep AGAIN to Viking Prince.

I take it you're from the US. *checks profile* aha. well, I know certain countries *cough*USA*cough* have public schools that indeed, have a tragically bad educational system, but here, in the Netherlands, schools are actually quite good. And the ministry of education is to take credit. or maybe it's our minister of education, who wore a leather hat when he took part in the gay pride parade.

I get the feeling a lot of americans refuse to use so-called socialist idea's, simply because of this post-commie bastard culture.

[Nietzsche]

As did I, but the point remains that religion has no place in education.


I take it you're from the US. *checks profile* aha. well, I know certain countries *cough*USA*cough* have public schools that indeed, have a tragically bad educational system, but here, in the Netherlands, schools are actually quite good. And the ministry of education is to take credit. or maybe it's our minister of education, who wore a leather hat when he took part in the gay pride parade.

I get the feeling a lot of americans refuse to use so-called socialist idea's, simply because of this post-commie bastard culture.

Apples and oranges

You cannot compare public school systems between two countries unless their cultures are similar. Outside the fact that both countries are democratic there is nothing else similar about them.

Therefore, the fact that your public school system works is likely a result of some element that does not exist here. To hazard a guess, I would say it is probably due to a lower population and broader homogenization of culture. Here in the USofA, we are more spread out and have highly developed cultures between localities. Among other problems, this makes a monolithic education system a complete and utter failure.

Parents should not make the decision, the state should. Because the majority of people are stupid. I wouldn't entrust to stupid people an important decision like how to educate the young.

This can be applied to any act that is generally reserved to a free populace and is therefore absurd. Because you have a dim egocentric view of a certain population set in no way means the state should be allowed to enforce a common will upon them.

This argument could be made that certain people shouldn't vote, have children, raise children, etc... There isn't and shouldn't be intelligence tests for people to be free to make decisions for themselves, despite what elitists and social engineers think.

[Dr. Croccer]

As did I, but the point remains that religion has no place in education.

People who aren't educated about the major religions and their mores shouldn't complain about them. Religion has a place in education, because if you don't educate children about, say, Judaism and it's basic tenits, you're denying them an important requirement for society. That''s just as bad as religious schools not educating their children about evolution.

[Cluny the Scourge]

Parents should not make the decision, the state should. Because the majority of people are stupid. I wouldn't entrust to stupid people an important decision like how to educate the young.