Have I just witnessed clever AI? Or pure fluke

**The Red Cardinal** · March 20, 2009, 06:41 PM

Right bit of scene setting.

I've just eradicated Mysore in India, and I own the 3 southernmost states in India. It was long and bloody but finally got there with a few huge and experienced armies left over.

Muratha Confederacy own the rest - a mass of green, but never been at war with them; have in fact exchanged a few states with them, have trade etc. All good.

Then my war in the Americas goes terribly wrong when I get the Thirteen Colonies and and the French, Spanish and Cherokees start attacking me all over the place with huge stacks.

So 8 years of peace in India, I decide to build some dragoons and transport my 3 senior armies over to the Americas to hand their ass back to them.

No sooner have my boats dropped over the horizon.... Muratha Confederacy suddenly for no reason declares war on me and attacks my now woefully undefended cities.

Luckily I just turned the boats round and have just landed my armies back again to take over all of India.

But I was wondering - was this clever AI,exploiting the sudden spaces? Or was it just dumb luck?

**coman** · March 20, 2009, 06:42 PM

The AI is aware of when you leave your cities undefended. They are aware of when you're in a strong position. It takes these into account.

**Mr.Excitement** · March 20, 2009, 06:53 PM

The AI is a clever bastard, believe it or not. Whenever I declare war on one of them, their military ranking on the charts goes super high. >.<

**Keline** · March 20, 2009, 07:23 PM

Persia declared on me when I took Sri Lanka with my last army in india too.

I've noticed some complete failures too, for example I've defended a fort against three line infantry with 2 firelock citizenry. Only 1 line infantry actually attacked, another one climbed up and walked down, stopped 10 yards away from the flag circle and went AFK, the third one never moved at all. The line infantry was locked in combat with the second citizenry when suddenly they stopped fighting. They just stood there, for 40 minutes, until battle timer ran out and I had a victory that actually killed off one of their perfectly healthy line infantry units.

I had the same thing happen in a town fight too, garrison charged by line infantry, half way through the fight they stopped fighting again until timer ran out.

Fortresses are pretty OP morale boost. I actually saw a Firelock Citizenry fight UNTIL THE LAST MAN against my +4 line infantry in melee combat, not even wavering! Which was pretty god damn annoying because another unit of riflemen shot at the fight so I was slowly losing soldiers in that company and I just wanted them to rout already so I could return fire.

I've actually seen firelock citizenry rout with full 60 men because the unit next to them routed or because of 4-5 losses.

**aeoleron9** · March 20, 2009, 11:26 PM

OP, there's the famed passive AI for you.. [sarcasm]

Yeah, AI does take advantage of your power vacancies, especially if they're the more aggressive type and have mustered enough forces. They can be all friendly and apologetic but once your back is turned..

**Mahatma Gandhi** · March 21, 2009, 03:32 AM

Yep, I'd just started a new LC-French VH, and w/in 5-6 turns Savoy had cap'd Paris using the free treaty movement and witnessing that I was in/around Brussels, because UP had agro'd on me in turn 3 or 4. That was all she wrote for that campaign............ ah joy, least I hadnt put too much time into it. EXTREMELY frustrating it was over that quick when it happened, but man my lil tights wearing Frenchies put up a helluva fight on the Brussels bridge 60+ 1 demi VS 140+/- and won!!

I did cap Brussels, but didnt have enough income to push Savoy back out, hadta rush em and hope it worked. No joy.

**The Red Cardinal** · March 21, 2009, 06:10 AM

Thanks for the replies.

I think some of you have commented on whether them attacking undefended cities was unusual - not really what I meant, I'd fully expect that to be honest.

What I meant was - did the AI compute that despite my power being "terrifying" - I only actually had 4 units on mainland India and so it was safe to declare war on me in that arena, i.e. not considering my army strength as a whole, but instead my ability to combat its specific attacks in India. If so, I think that's pretty impressive.

The difference might be subtle but it's important I think.

**Bonaparte** · March 21, 2009, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by The Red Cardinal

Thanks for the replies.

I think some of you have commented on whether them attacking undefended cities was unusual - not really what I meant, I'd fully expect that to be honest.

What I meant was - did the AI compute that despite my power being "terrifying" - I only actually had 4 units on mainland India and so it was safe to declare war on me in that arena, i.e. not considering my army strength as a whole, but instead my ability to combat its specific attacks in India. If so, I think that's pretty impressive.

The difference might be subtle but it's important I think.

Yeah, I agree with you - I'm not convinced that it's not just dumb luck either.

**aeoleron9** · March 21, 2009, 07:36 AM

Yes they do calculate how much enemy units are in the vinicity, not just the overall strength. IIRC they focus on the provinces that share borders with them, and how many troops are in these regions.

**Byg** · March 21, 2009, 08:53 AM

I had a similar experience ,but the ai was cleverer still.
Playing on vh/vh

As Marathas I defeated all but one province of the Mughals. The remaining 1 became my protectorate in the north. A useful barrier between me and persia I thought, whilst I went off to claim some territory in the Americas.

With most of my forces abroad, but enough at home the Mughals declared war again. how they did it was devastating.

They simultaneously besieged and took a region capital, giving them 2 in total, blockaded all my trade ports and blocked my trade routes with the trade zones.

My response was to gather all available forces in india into 2 armies, which were greater than theirs and I proceeded to besiege their two region capitals.

However, the blockades starved my forces of money and my armies were halved in size. They then defeated both my armies leaving my continent wide open. After losing another region my American force returned home and after a long struggle retook everything, but it was a very close run thing.

**Keline** · March 21, 2009, 10:47 AM

btw if the AI decides to go with a small force after an undefended town, don't autoresolve and let them take it. Put your armed citizenry inside buildings, if you have more citizenry and buildings than the opponent has line infantry, you'll almost always win because it can't take units back out of garrison buildings. If all it has is cavalry, you win anyways because cavalry can't enter buildings to begin with. Neither can pikemen btw. Very weak.

Sometimes the AI doesn't even move from the starting position if everyone is in a building. With spain I defended Southern Italy twice from an army of 3 line infantry because the town has 6 buildings and you start with 7 armed citizenries, the first one he took three buildings and then stopped, I win and he lost one LI, the next turn he attacked again but never moved from his starting area.

Never autoresolve small armies vs citizenry, the AI might fry and you win after timeout.

**J. Fishman** · March 21, 2009, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Keline

btw if the AI decides to go with a small force after an undefended town, don't autoresolve and let them take it.

Never autoresolve when you are attacked, unless you want to surrender. Period. If the AI attacks you, he has ALREADY autoresolved the battle and ruled it to be in his favor. If you autoresolve, you will ALWAYS LOSE. This is particularly true when your units are maneuverable units: While AIs do well in pure slugging matches, they fail utterly at maneuver warfare and siege tactics. You can totally annihilate vastly superior forces in such situations: My favorite was the time I had like 10 men in two beat up cavalry units defending a city against thousands of barbarians, and I routed them with 80% casualties. Just remember that if you fight by autoresolving, if the AI attacks you even under those conditions, YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST. The best outcome you can possibly achieve under autoresolve of a defensive battle is pyrrhic victory, the most common by far being crushing defeat. Never autoresolve on defense unless you want to surrender because you have no hope at all. Even then, you can often him make him bleed for it!

**The Red Cardinal** · March 21, 2009, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by J. Fishman

Never autoresolve when you are attacked, unless you want to surrender. Period. If the AI attacks you, he has ALREADY autoresolved the battle and ruled it to be in his favor. If you autoresolve, you will ALWAYS LOSE. This is particularly true when your units are maneuverable units: While AIs do well in pure slugging matches, they fail utterly at maneuver warfare and siege tactics. You can totally annihilate vastly superior forces in such situations: My favorite was the time I had like 10 men in two beat up cavalry units defending a city against thousands of barbarians, and I routed them with 80% casualties. Just remember that if you fight by autoresolving, if the AI attacks you even under those conditions, YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST. The best outcome you can possibly achieve under autoresolve of a defensive battle is pyrrhic victory, the most common by far being crushing defeat. Never autoresolve on defense unless you want to surrender because you have no hope at all. Even then, you can often him make him bleed for it!

Not sure this is true to be honest - I've been attacked in some ludicrous scenarios (6 units attacking my full stack, with another in support) and the balance of the fight was clearly in my favour. Not worth fighting in my view, so I've autoresolved and won.

**Akbar** · March 25, 2009, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by J. Fishman

Never autoresolve when you are attacked, unless you want to surrender. Period. If the AI attacks you, he has ALREADY autoresolved the battle and ruled it to be in his favor. If you autoresolve, you will ALWAYS LOSE. This is particularly true when your units are maneuverable units: While AIs do well in pure slugging matches, they fail utterly at maneuver warfare and siege tactics. You can totally annihilate vastly superior forces in such situations: My favorite was the time I had like 10 men in two beat up cavalry units defending a city against thousands of barbarians, and I routed them with 80% casualties. Just remember that if you fight by autoresolving, if the AI attacks you even under those conditions, YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST. The best outcome you can possibly achieve under autoresolve of a defensive battle is pyrrhic victory, the most common by far being crushing defeat. Never autoresolve on defense unless you want to surrender because you have no hope at all. Even then, you can often him make him bleed for it!

Incorrect. When i was backstabbed by Spain, I autoresolved their assault on Paris and won with acceptable losses. If the AI hate you enough, they will attack even if they do not outnumber you that much.

**Gornard** · March 25, 2009, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Keline

btw if the AI decides to go with a small force after an undefended town, don't autoresolve and let them take it. Put your armed citizenry inside buildings, if you have more citizenry and buildings than the opponent has line infantry, you'll almost always win because it can't take units back out of garrison buildings. If all it has is cavalry, you win anyways because cavalry can't enter buildings to begin with. Neither can pikemen btw. Very weak.

I found that the enemy will often leave a building after they garrisoned. In one battle where i had 4 armed citizens each in a building, the AI had 1 militia, 1 pikemen (can't enter buildigns) and a whole load of provincial cavalry. That one militia unit cleared 3 of my buildings and lost in the last one.

Although that said, alot of the time i can hold on and just let the timer run out.

**dead-cat** · March 25, 2009, 09:18 AM

happend to me too, although not immediatly. however, i had 1 full stack in Mysore when i was attacked. the relationship prior to this attack was friendly with trade rights.
my other army was absent in the southern Caribbean and i just embarked for an attack on Florida. i had to turn them around and ship them asap to India, having to shelve any attack on the Cherokee for quite some time. Until the reinforcements arrived, the Mysore army had to fend off 3 distinct assaults.

**Gezoes** · March 25, 2009, 12:05 PM

I've noticed that the AI is quite persistant at flanking my left flank with sword and other melee units. Especially the American tribes

I also noticed it suddenly max unit production and then declare war on me. I was waiting

but still... that's nice.

**eatme** · March 25, 2009, 12:07 PM

Sure there's scripted AI behaviour if we talk about reactions like having certain amount of troops in the locale or undefended border region, etc

**mir24** · March 25, 2009, 08:55 PM

The AI is either crafty or plain mad. It's made some pretty cunning moves in my Ottoman campaign. It's an almost certain thing that Georgia, Dagestan and Venice (in Morea) will assault my empire especially if the regional capitals are lightly defended. Almost as if they're waiting for me to empty my regions of defenders.

Having said that, when I invaded Morea in turn and occupied a town with a decent army, they counterattacked with TWO militia units. Suicidal? Or just testing my strength?

At any rate, I've made it a point to take out all three neighbours very quickly.

RE: Spawning

Has anyone realised how the AI spawns units like rabbits? In the beginning of the game, all the above provinces start with three or four units. But give them a few turns, they'll be training 1 or 2 units per turn and build up their strength quicker than me.

Another example is Malta. They start with 4 or 5 units but by 1710 in my previous campaign, they had a FULL stack on that tiny island!

**Handyheath** · March 25, 2009, 09:11 PM

I know your question has already been answered but i'd like to share that it also happened to me in my prussian campaign. I was atwar with austria and due to low manpower sent all my forces to deal with them.

With my western territories relatively undefended, several of the smaller nations in the west declared war and attacked. I sued for peace with austria and got it but when i sent my armies to deal with the western threat, both poland and austria decided it would be the perfect time to attack me.

Nasty Pastys