Italian States?

[caralampio]

OK so there's no Pope in ETW (well there is but he got no power). However, in the time period the Papal States, a.k.a. the Pontifical States, a.k.a. the Patrimony of St. Peter, still existed as a nation. Any of the three names I mentioned will do to name that region. It was never called the Italian States. You can search Wikipedia for "Italian States" and tell me if you get any hit.

In a game where religion is still somewhat prominent, where you can recruit missionaries and convert lands to your nation's faith, what spasm of political correctness caused the designers to euphemize the Papal States, a historical name, into "Italian States"? I wonder.

[Grimstoned]

I think they did it for the people of Italy.

[Godless Pickle]

So Southern Italy is not Italian, but rather Spanish? Pretty historically incorrect if you asked me. I know the Spanish controlled parts of Italy, but it was sort of the same mess as was in Central Germany- many small city states. But, they had to be labeled as Italian States.

[L'Afrique]

So Southern Italy is not Italian, but rather Spanish? Pretty historically incorrect if you asked me. I know the Spanish controlled parts of Italy, but it was sort of the same mess as was in Central Germany- many small city states. But, they had to be labeled as Italian States.

Naples, Sicily, and Lombardy were under direct Spanish rule in 1700, there's no inaccuracy there. The only Italian states missing are Tuscany, Parma, and Modena, I think, and maybe Lucca or Siena? Italy was not nearly as divided as Germany.

[Godless Pickle]

No, I was saying calling the numerous middle italian states historically uncorrected.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Id say that is a "divided" nation.

[django333]

Can't wait for mods.

[Pallantides]

I like the name "Italian States" it fits when you go about unifying Italy.

[Godless Pickle]

I like the name "Italian States" it fits when you go about unifying Italy.

If you could play the Italian states......CA......but luckily we have a great modding community and have a patch!

[masterproctor77]

Just like the germanic states, it would be too difficult to include all the itty-bitty factions that existed at that time and still create a good balance in the game. So, I get that it's unfortunate that many of the italian and germanic states (that I do miss myself) are not included, but it would otherwise allow other nations (like Spain and France) to just mow through those tiny little provinces.

[Grimstoned]

To bad CA did not finish this faction. I would have liked to have played as them out of the box.

[caralampio]

But my point is, the faction as it begins the game almost exactly conforms to the borders of the Pontifical States of the period, therefore it should be called that. And its monarch is the Pope... A possible future unification should not be considered, in that case all countries should be called like something they will be in the future. Besides, The IS are not supposed to be playable. They can be modded but normally not.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

OK so there's no Pope in ETW (well there is but he got no power). However, in the time period the Papal States, a.k.a. the Pontifical States, a.k.a. the Patrimony of St. Peter, still existed as a nation. Any of the three names I mentioned will do to name that region. It was never called the Italian States. You can search Wikipedia for "Italian States" and tell me if you get any hit.

In a game where religion is still somewhat prominent, where you can recruit missionaries and convert lands to your nation's faith, what spasm of political correctness caused the designers to euphemize the Papal States, a historical name, into "Italian States"? I wonder.

There were more than just the Papal States in central Italy, the Duchy of Tuscany being the main one. Its just a simplification, much like how all the Spanish, all the Turks, all the Germans, and all the Russians were thrown together in M2TW.

[Jaketh]

i got a hit!! i know its not the same but it says ITAILIAN STATES so ha!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolut...Italian_states

[Nidaros]

Honestly, the developers should load up a game of Europa Universalis 3 and take a look at what the world looked like, its pretty darn correct and it would have saved them alot of research time

[ray243]

Now, I'm still waiting for a mod that add in more factions, especially the 18th century Roman Republic, and rebuild a new Roman empire with Rome at its captial, and Constantinople as its sister capital.

[Aradius]

The borders are *not* those of the pontifical state - there's the town of Florence, which is Tuscany, and probably more.
Generally, it should be clear that it would be ridiculous to divide central Italy into many very small regions on Empire's map size.
Yes, "Italian States" is not a historic country of that time. So what? It even explicitly says "states", i.e. they're several states combined into one faction. Where is the problem?

It's a smaller version of the German problem. Given Empire's map detail, it's obviously not possible to represent every tiny statelet, so they have to simplify. All of Western Germany is put together in the state of Westphalia under the rule of Joseph Clemens (who actually ruled the Duchy of Westphalia at the time, because it was part of the Archbishopric of Cologne). That's incorrect, of course, but in one way or the other necessary. The same with the other German states.

And while religion still played a role in the 18th century, the Pope had lost much of his political influence. Politically, it's not really far off to lump him together with the other small Italian states of the time.

[Rotaugen2009]

I was playing a campaign game as the Prussians, and these fragmented "Italian States" declared war on me! You'd think they had bigger fish to fry, but noooo. Fine, I'll unify Italy... under Prussian rule!

To get an idea how fragmented both Germany and Italy were at this time, realize that neither one of them was a united country until the late 1800s, well past the end of this game's time period.

[Willowmound]

Fun fact (though I don't have a source): In the year 1789, there were 1789 German states.

[JCR]

Actually throwing together "the german states" would've been more correct.
Wesphalia as such didn't even exist in 1700. It was way smaller.
Western Germany was fragmented into clerical holdings (Electoral bishops of Cologne, Trier and Mainz), Westphalia, prussian posessions and a whole lot of small states.
Württemberg is pretty much the same.
At the time, it was a mixture of countless free cities, the duchy of Württemberg, the duchy of Baden and the Palatinate.
Realistically you could throw Westphalia and Württemberg together into "the german states" or "the south german states".
The "north german states" would then be Hannover, Hesse-Cassel, Brunswick and the other smaller protestant states which usually sided with Prussian and/or England.

Even Bavaria was, at the time, not a territorial integrity.
The elector of Bavaria had no power over most of the free cities (e.g. Nuremberg) or clerical holdings (Würzburg, Freising).
That was one of the advantages Prussia had. Almost no enclaves within its territory.

[eatme]

It may not be so very much historically accurate, but it is a valid name nonetheless in general sense.