Territorial expansion penalty bug

**fingon** · March 19, 2009, 12:32 PM

When u conquer some territory u get -10 penalty to diplomacy factor (territorial expansion) to all nations and -50 to the specific nation u have conquered the territory from. BUT.. If u give, sell, trade ur region to another nation, the penalty of -10 doesnt disappear, so that if u conquer 20 regions, u have -200 to diplomatic relation with the nation u are allied with!!!!! and if u give,sell.. all of ur regions to someone and u have ONLY 1 region, u got STILL -200 penalty to diplomatic negotiations, even if u are a single region faction. Moreover, the penalty of -50 to the nation u took the territory from also doesnt disappear!! if u give back this territory to that nation. So that when u conquer 2 regions from the nation u got -100 penalty plus -200 penalty (20 regions - even if u sell them) u have -300 plus -200 (war penalty) = more than -500 penalty and it is impossible to make a peace with this nation (u took from them 2 regions and gave them back), they refuse 300 000 gold, 15 technologies and 3 regions. Not realistic. Ruining the game.

Here is the picture of diplomatic relations - Hannover 1737 - as soon as I conquer some land I give it to some or appropriate nation, so I got only 4 regions in Europe and 5 in America. Still I have incredibly high territorial penalty:

**fingon** · March 19, 2009, 02:15 PM

Has anyone seen any cheats to force this crippled diplomacy issue?? This really ruins the game..

**upsettingshorts** · March 19, 2009, 03:33 PM

Yeah, it makes helping out your allies REALLY hard to justify. You kind of have to babysit them as THEY take it back or else you cripple your relations with other nations.

**akinkhoo** · March 20, 2009, 12:09 AM

just kill all the western country and support the muslim.

that's the only option until the game is rebalanced.

**fingon** · March 20, 2009, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by akinkhoo

just kill all the western country and support the muslim.

that's the only option until the game is rebalanced.

I try to balance the world when I am strong.

So I attack only the states that I want: ie Russia, Ottoman Empire, Maroco and other non European, then every single small state I try to be its protector and do not attack any european nation, so they could hold their territories. Except Spain, but only its American territories.

**fingon** · March 20, 2009, 04:29 AM

Btw is there any way how to get rid off this horrible expansion penalty, it would improve the gameplay nicely!

**darkghoul** · March 22, 2009, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by fingon

Btw is there any way how to get rid off this horrible expansion penalty, it would improve the gameplay nicely!

I would also like to know, i've been searching for it but haven't found anything. Anyone working on removing/weakening this penalty?

**Ahiga** · March 22, 2009, 02:36 PM

There's a real disconnect with its usage. I had heard it effects you only if you take territory of their fellow religion, yet I am getting a negative reputation with some factions for taking Native American territory, while others don't even concern themselves with my territorial expansion.

It should really only effect your relations when you take land belonging to a common religion, national grouping (There's values in the game for "Mughal" grouping or "British" grouping, lumping in many different factions), or nations friendly to the one's whose opinion of you is hurt.

**aeoleron9** · March 22, 2009, 11:16 PM

I try to balance the world when I am strong.

So I attack only the states that I want: ie Russia, Ottoman Empire, Maroco and other non European, then every single small state I try to be its protector and do not attack any european nation, so they could hold their territories. Except Spain, but only its American territories.

This exactly what I'm doing atm, and I'm also getting hounded by the expansion penalty even if I didn't actually gain any regions. Whenever I'm forced to conquer a town I gave it away immediately, but the penalty stll remain.

**fingon** · March 29, 2009, 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by aeoleron9

This exactly what I'm doing atm, and I'm also getting hounded by the expansion penalty even if I didn't actually gain any regions. Whenever I'm forced to conquer a town I gave it away immediately, but the penalty stll remain.

Originally Posted by calicheSCOT

I suppose CA decided to include this feature so the game gets progressively harder as you get stronger. However, I cant see why my allies should start to dislike me because of my successes. OK fine, some countries would be more hostile as they come to see my power as a threat, but wouldn't other, less powerful, countries start being nicer to me so they can get a slice of my power or money?

As I gain more and more territories playing Empire I feel that the game is instead just 'punishing' me for my success, which is extremely annoying. I don't see this being changed as CA have enough on their plate so I would look towards modifications to fix this.

Exactly!

Its very annoying. I reported it to CA and after a "long battle" they included it here to the BUG section and it will be fixed. So some good news guys.

Hope it will be included in the non CTD patch.

**i like haggis** · March 27, 2009, 07:05 PM

its really wierd. for me, as britain, i own most of everything (all of india, america, and western europe). central europe hates me, so i am fighting it. same with russia. and georgia. everyone in fact, except the ottomans and dagestan. for no particular reason, they arent bothered that i am munching up the world at an alarming rate. even when i was going quite slowly for financial reasons (i now have about 17 full stacks roaming around killing) all my allies hated me for territorial reasons, and europe has always hated me. WHY???
oh well. they're all going to die anyway...

**Titan Uranus** · March 27, 2009, 07:31 PM

As France I took every country(except Prussia) on the way to Austria and Austria in a lightning two year campaign(that sounds funny), as well as the Iroquois and Huron confederacies and half the mungal empire in +/- two years and I haven't noticed anything.

**calicheSCOT** · March 27, 2009, 07:34 PM

I suppose CA decided to include this feature so the game gets progressively harder as you get stronger. However, I cant see why my allies should start to dislike me because of my successes. OK fine, some countries would be more hostile as they come to see my power as a threat, but wouldn't other, less powerful, countries start being nicer to me so they can get a slice of my power or money?

As I gain more and more territories playing Empire I feel that the game is instead just 'punishing' me for my success, which is extremely annoying. I don't see this being changed as CA have enough on their plate so I would look towards modifications to fix this.

**tuore** · March 29, 2009, 04:23 AM

It really sucks. Hope they'll fix it.

**Graf zu Adler** · March 29, 2009, 04:35 AM

In my opinion, the biggest bug with that Territorial expansion penalty is, that if you lose one of your STARTING REGIONS (not any you conquered!) and take it back, you STILL get that penalty! What country did ever hte another because it took bck its own land?!?

**eatme** · March 29, 2009, 09:47 AM

This kinda bugs makes some diplomacy centered strategies hardly viable, bets way to play left is to conquer them all bla-bla.

**erebrus** · April 25, 2009, 12:26 PM

I understand the concept of territorial expansion as a way to recreate what happened in the napoleonic wars, i.e. when you starting conquering all known world, everybody dislikes you and forming coalitions to stop you. This was what eventually stopped napoleon and makes total sense. Actually, I've played TW series since shogun, and as you probably all agree, after we establish ourselves as the most powerful the game is over...even if you need to take X provinces...no one will stand up to you.
The problem is that this doesn't work well because:
a)They don't form coalitions and therefore they don't attack you.
b) Unless you take territory that is in some way relevant to an ally (e.g. nation intended to attack that region, either to reclaim it or because it is in the path of its expansion), allies should not be upset with you
c) Giving territories away should decrease the penalty

**Double X** · April 25, 2009, 04:27 PM

I wouldn't mind it as long as it was capped out at -200. Just imagine your country is...

a superpower,
destroying nations,
just going crazy in general,

BUT, if you

pay state gifts often, (90-100)
have similar religion/govt, (10-25)
military alliance and trade agreements, (40 - 90)
plus some nice ministers (0-10)

they should probably like you. I also think you should get positive diplomacy for people being scared of you, where they actually like you because they don't want to get squashed. Preferably maxing out at around 50