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Thread: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

  1. #121
    Ketzerfreund's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    It's also a good thing insofar as it allows easy modularisation. Far too often (not only in this game, the last time I was disappointed in the way modders worked - while they wouldn't have even needed to do so! - was Silent Hunter III) I see huge packages including far more than a player could always want, resulting in far too much redundancy.

    If I may take the mentioned Silent Hunter III as an example, because it is a very good one:
    Almost all Supermods for that game include the same "Das Boot"-Sounds, making the packages several hundred megabytes in size, completely unneeded. Also, many of those Supermods had it's own idea of an interface, resulting in the game-mechanics likeable on one hand, while finding the interface atrocious or the other way around.

    And all the while it had been possible all the time to break the mods into three categories - game-mechanics/environment/ai, interface and sound (textures not that much, because all those supermods often included their own lists of ships).

    The modular approach will help every user to choose what to pick for the several aspects of the game. Total conversions still have the option to bundle their work into one big pack, while the modular system allows easy usage of sub-mods to those.


    So, I like this system.


    [Edit:] However, the modding community is required to also recognise all this! Don't include the same texture-packs with every single supermod (a supermod being a compilation of several gameplay, graphics and sound changes) when that texture-pack is available seperately!
    Last edited by Ketzerfreund; March 23, 2009 at 08:40 PM.
    "Oh, to be truly happy! To be an imbecile." - Wobbly Headed Bob

  2. #122

    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    I always used to just rip what I wanted out of each SHIV mod, I do that with any game/mod actually.

  3. #123

    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    Yeah I really like this pack db system. I think the learning curve is steeper (you can't just open up some text files and start modding away), but ultimately I think it will result in mods that are easier to install and manage.

    Now if only we could get the Mod SDK from CA, or at least some docudemons!

  4. #124

    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    Quote Originally Posted by JeromeGrasdyke View Post
    Ok, it looks like I will need to go into a bit more detail about declaring mod packs to the game. You currently do need to tell the game which mod packs you want to have active. You do this by passing the game a script command for each mod you want to have active.

    Here's a step-by-step guide:

    - find your preferences.empire_script.txt file (in Application Data on an XP machine)
    - create a new text file next to it called user.empire_script.txt
    - inside there, list your mods like this, one line per mod:
    mod my_pack.pack;

    The user script gets processed on load, and will tell the game to load your mods in that order. There are a whole bunch of other commands that can be used from there, including dependency definitions and so on, but we'll leave those for now. As I said, this is a quick preview of mechanisms that will be properly documented in the mod dev package.

    So, about running 'unpacked'. Yes, the game currently will run unpacked, but doing that will alter the way in which the data precedence works in some cases, which means that as we add more patches it's not guaranteed to keep working. It may be convenient to work that way while tinkering with a mod, and that's fine, it's exactly why the feature exists, but I'd strongly recommend against giving other people mods which work like that. One last note - LtChambers is actually correct when he's seperating the released packs by CA into 'boot' and 'release' categories, but it's a minor distinction which has no real practical value from your point of view - for a modder, the two might as well be identical
    How do we do this with mods that don't have .pack on the end? For instance, the projectiletrail mod that goes in the FX subfolder...how do we create a patch compatible mod pack for these kind of files as described above?

  5. #125

    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    Use LtChambers' Pack File Manager to create an EMTY pack file, then add all of the files for that particular mod to that pack, THEN change the .pack type to Mod in the PFM options.
    My named ships in Empire Total War: (that i can remember)

    Fifth Rate, HMS Poseidon.

    Fifth Rate, HMS Dauntless.

    Fifth Rate, HMS Enterprise NCC-1701

    Fifth Rate, HMS Simi.


    ------
    "Ya best start believing in ghost stories Miss Turner. You're IN one!"

  6. #126

    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    Quote Originally Posted by JeromeGrasdyke View Post
    This means that a mod pack can replace any file in the vfs and add new ones as well, without asking the person who downloaded the mod to overwrite files on disk and destroy data.

    So basically, a mod is intended to be a single “mod pack” file, and installing a mod is just placing that pack inside the game’s data directory, and uninstalling it is removing it.

    hoorah! i never liked overwriting game data when installing mods, always having to make backups of everything
    "...and all the men and women merely players."

  7. #127
    Ketzerfreund's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dignan
    How do we do this with mods that don't have .pack on the end? For instance, the projectiletrail mod that goes in the FX subfolder...how do we create a patch compatible mod pack for these kind of files as described above?
    Dignan, the fx folder can be put into a mod pack file just like almost all others. I have recently updated my guide for getting rid of projectile trails according to this pack system and the usage of the Pack File Manager. Take a look.
    "Oh, to be truly happy! To be an imbecile." - Wobbly Headed Bob

  8. #128

    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    Thanks for this "primer". I have been digging around a while trying to find out where to start. A quick glance at the files in EWT shows even the most casual modder ( me ) that the file system and architecture in E differs greatly from earlier games. So, my only recommendation is that you might make it clearer that this is where one should start .... unless it isn't ... then I am even more confused than I had tought.

    Thanks for the hard work.
    Fear is the perfect instrument for oppression.

    And Fear is fed with ignorance and stupidity.

  9. #129

    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    Well, this is just an explanation of how Empire deals with mods, and how the game's system works.

    From a practical point of view, the place you want to start is with Lt. Chambers' pack file manager; that allows you to create mod packs simply and easily, it's a really nice tool.

  10. #130

    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    Using the correct form for mods, it leaves me with two unsolved problems:

    1. the localisation.loc: there is a workaround with a additional pack file, though i don't know, what happens when CA really comes up with a check against cheaters. will this effect MP playing (though need to test how MP runs with this proper format as all as up to now i work around problems by using a patch.pack. Additionally this would alter language for those having a localised version, just for getting unit names into the game (new ships with new textures)
    2. grouping_permissions and exlusive_faction_permissions: I like to bring my new units into naval battles and this will make it nessessary to remove the old grouping_ and exclusive_faction_permissions how can i do this while using renamed files and what happens with online check, if i just keep with overriting the existing ones? whithout removing the old ones i get multiple shipversion for some factions (those who are intended to use the new ship-variants)
    Would appreciate some input for those problems...

    Next real hard problem i have are the naval models himself. Is there any intended format for include new textures into a mod? I can change textures on hull and i can make new ships with this textures by cloning and altering existing models. But my main problem is the size of such a mod, as it seems you have to include the complete model for each texture variant in such a mod.
    Bladerunner
    Koeniglich Preussische Marine
    Sealords Virtual Fleets

    Sealords Minimod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=274322
    Sealords Total War Mod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=246265

  11. #131

    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    Quote Originally Posted by Excae View Post
    Well, this is just an explanation of how Empire deals with mods, and how the game's system works.

    From a practical point of view, the place you want to start is with Lt. Chambers' pack file manager; that allows you to create mod packs simply and easily, it's a really nice tool.
    This I have done...but:

    I don't think it is where I need to start either. I need to start at the very beginning. And I have no idea where that is. I did some modding on M2TW but if I tried to mod something like weather and its textures in ETW , I know that they reside in the effects and fx files...but I don't know how they go together nor how to mod them nor how to know if I have changed all the files that require changing. If I want to get more sunlight and less overcast and fog ( which seems almost constant in ETW European battles) I really have no idea where to begin and for that matter, where to end. I guess what I am saying is I need a step-by-step example of an actual mod from start to finish.

    If there is such a beast, please point my head towards it. And I shall be eternally grateful...or there'abouts.
    Fear is the perfect instrument for oppression.

    And Fear is fed with ignorance and stupidity.

  12. #132
    Ketzerfreund's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    The fx files are plain text. Extract them, edit to your liking, and put the modified files in a mod pack and you should be set.
    "Oh, to be truly happy! To be an imbecile." - Wobbly Headed Bob

  13. #133

    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    After reading peoples' explanations here on how to do this I am now loading mods correctly.

    I still have one question though. Before I did this correctly, I was unpacking my MAIN.PACK, changing the file name so the game would bypass the MAIN.PACK file and read the unpacked, modded folders.

    I now use the mod packs correctly and changed MAIN.PACK back to read exactly "MAIN.PACK" again so the game would read from this pack file and not the unpacked folders. Do I need to delete the unpacked folders now or am I just asking for trouble? My mod packs work, but only if I change them to a 'patch' type file in the PFM program. Is this because I originally unpacked the MAIN.PACK? Thanks in advance to anyone who can follow that and help.

  14. #134

    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    Yes,you should delete the unpacked folders... If in doubt delete more rather than less and use Steam's repair function to download any bits which are missing.

    If you don't, the game will first load it's packs, and then it might end up looking at the loose files afterwards... Chances are it will get very confused at some point plus the fact that it becomes hard for you to figure out exactly which files are being used...

  15. #135

    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    I'll do that. Thanks for the reply

  16. #136

    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    ...I thought CA would release SDK to the community..

    CA you have done a great job so far, keep up the good work!!

    Why there is no German-Axis FPS game?
    Thank You for the rep+ given!:wink:

  17. #137
    alpaca's Avatar Harbinger of saliva
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    Default Re: Empire Mod Architecture Primer

    Quote Originally Posted by IndoPruss View Post
    ...I thought CA would release SDK to the community..
    Ah good sir, then you must be a dim-witted and credulous fool. After all they never claimed such a thing and never gave the impression of wanting to release a so-called modding toolset, whatsoever

    No thing is everything. Every thing is nothing.

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