Imperial Japanese Army

[Durban]

Should they have been in this game?

[Chevalier IX]

Japan was still far too isolated and set in their very old ways of conduct to have possibly been integrated into this game...in fact I believe during this era it was still very much forbidden to even venture from the islands that make up the Empire,or to accept foreigners into any save for the most designated of locations...and oh yes,not to mention the abolition of guns save for the most archaic of matchlocks and in incredibly limited quantities....this faction would have been on par with the natives

[Gora sahib]

IJA doesnt come into existence till after the Meiji Restoration, so late 1860s. 18th Century Japan is still under the Tokugawa Shogunate, and the country was essentially in a deep freeze - not expansionist, not in anyway on a parr militarily and technologically with the West, not in anyway industrialized or seeing the beginings of industrialization.

So theres no historical basis for playing Japan during this era and thus no real way to justify it in E:TW.

[ray243]

IJA doesnt come into existence till after the Meiji Restoration, so late 1860s. 18th Century Japan is still under the Tokugawa Shogunate, and the country was essentially in a deep freeze - not expansionist, not in anyway on a parr militarily and technologically with the West, not in anyway industrialized or seeing the beginings of industrialization.

So theres no historical basis for playing Japan during this era and thus no real way to justify it in E:TW.

If you can get the chance to turn the Mugals into an empire capable of conquering Europe, you should have the chance to do the same thing with Japan.

After all, the point of this game is to allow you play in an alternate history world.

There ought to be a world mod that actually makes the game so much more fun with more units and factions.

If Japan can modernize at such a huge pace in the 19th century, it should be able to moderninse quickly in the 18th century as well.

[Chevalier IX]

I think it is more the fact that the Mughals if given the chance would have risen to dominate the known world,whereas the Japanese were living under a strict policy of self imposed isolation and did not want nor did the seek any major contact with the ouside world for one reason or another,be it warfare,dominance or otherwise.it would just simply not fit and could not be posed in such a way to actually stand to any sort of reason.

[Gora sahib]

Ray243,

E:TW, like all the games in the series, is based on and guided by history. TW is not, and has never been, a sandbox strategy game - this isnt Risk. The TW games exist within certain historical peramiters, and you can only go so far in any one direction. Yes, TW has always had some fancifal elements, and yes the game plays fast and loose with some things. But TW has not ever been an 'alternate history' game in the sense that you are describing.

[jo the greek]

if puccle guns are in why not japans

[ray243]

if puccle guns are in why not japans

Exactly. Moreover, given the fact that we know it is possible for Japan to start a Meiji-like restoration within a 100 years in ETW if they redevelop their nation at such a fast rate in the 19th century, where European's technology is EVEN more advance than the 18th century, there is no reason not to include Japan.

[Godless Pickle]

And Japan had zero impact on the outside world. Asia at this point it time was not blossoming like the Americas or Europe.

[ray243]

And Japan had zero impact on the outside world. Asia at this point it time was not blossoming like the Americas or Europe.

Asia not blossoming? Hell, China is doing pretty well financially (guess the reason why the British want to pump Opium into China?) in this era, where the Golden age has just ended at the start of the campaign turn.

The 18th century is a time where their military technology and army was degraded partially due to a lack of major enemies.

All it takes is for the player to play as Japan in this era, and history can be drastically changed.

[Mordrorru]

Western Interaction with Japan in this time period consisted of sparse trade for a few years before Japan went into "Hide in a corner mode" and refused to talk to anybody for 200 years. They even burned all ocean-faring boats so nobody could leave.

So yeah, not that interesting.

[Inhuman One]

didnt the dutch trade with them, or was that later?

[Zeboim]

It was before and after, actually. But only in a very limited capacity during this time period. Like 2 ships a year.

Japan was complete isolationist at this time, and their weapon technology stagnated. Fighting Japan really wouldn't be very interesting at all, and not historical either.

It might make for a nice hypothetical expansion later on though. Add a "East Asia" zone that works like India, have China, Korea and Japan in it, available for colonization (although China would be a beast and a half to fight).

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

It was before and after, actually. But only in a very limited capacity during this time period. Like 2 ships a year.

And during, actually. The Dutch had a continuous presence in Japan (on Deshima, near Nagasaki to be precise) from 1638 all the way to the Meiji Restoration (and after that too of course). In the Napoleonic Wars it was the only place in the world where the Dutch flag flew for a while.

I am however not sure how profitable this trade was for either party.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

Just admit you want samurai with lightsabres and machine guns, or you just saw the last samurai

[Bocah_Bali]

At least Japanese did already have the musket technology given by Portuguese trader/missionaries. Plus they did try to invade Korea

[ray243]

At least Japanese did already have the musket technology given by Portuguese trader/missionaries. Plus they did try to invade Korea

Indeed, with late 17th era weapons.

[Xerrop]

... Plus they did try to invade Korea

But that was in the 16th century. Long before the E:TW era starts

A isolated nation (self-imposed!) like Japan doesn´t fit to E:TW in my opinion.
They started their modernization only in the 1860´s after the US and the European powers forced them to open their trade-relations with foreign nations - without foreign navies invading japan, their government and nobles wouldn´t see any reason to change their state ...

[ray243]

But that was in the 16th century. Long before the E:TW era starts

A isolated nation (self-imposed!) like Japan doesn´t fit to E:TW in my opinion.
They started their modernization only in the 1860´s after the US and the European powers forced them to open their trade-relations with foreign nations - without foreign navies invading japan, their government and nobles wouldn´t see any reason to change their state ...

What happens when the player decides to expand his colonial empire to East Asia? What happesn when the player is playing as Japan? If people can enjoy playing as Japan in EU3 and etc, then there will be people who can enjoy playing as Japan.

Like I said, no point arguing against the inclusion of Japan in a history thread, especially when we already know that ETW didn't have Japan, and the development of a mod does not have to fit to your personal taste.

Seriously, why do the fans here have to deny people the chance to have fun as well? If you don't like to include Japan, then stay off the thread, since you have nothing positive to contribute anyway.

[Gora sahib]

What happens when the player decides to expand his colonial empire to East Asia? What happesn when the player is playing as Japan? If people can enjoy playing as Japan in EU3 and etc, then there will be people who can enjoy playing as Japan.

Like I said, no point arguing against the inclusion of Japan in a history thread, especially when we already know that ETW didn't have Japan, and the development of a mod does not have to fit to your personal taste.

Seriously, why do the fans here have to deny people the chance to have fun as well? If you don't like to include Japan, then stay off the thread, since you have nothing positive to contribute anyway.

Ray243,

First, go to the start of the thread ... there you will find the original poster's question. It reads, "Should they have been in this game?" Now, a number of us have set out to explain in some detail (using what are commonly known as facts) to explain just why the IJA, and therefore Japan, is not in E:TW.

This addresses at the same time the question of "Should Japan be a faction in E:TW." The same answers apply here - which is, in short, no there is little to no reason to have Japan in E:TW.

Im sorry to point out to you that it is you that is somewhat off topic in this thread.