The Military's Place in the US System

[Farnan]

"This is the sort of advice and counsel you might find yourself delivering one day to a future President or Secretary of Defense. When you do, make sure it your best, most independent military opinion -- neither constrained nor contaminated by personal politics. Part of the deal we made when we joined up was to willingly subordinate our individual interests to the greater good of protecting national interests. The military as an institution must remain a neutral instrument of the state, no matter which party holds sway. We give our best advice beforehand. If it's followed, great. If it's not, we have only two choices. Obey the orders we have been given, carrying them out with the professionalism and loyalty they deserve or vote with our feet. That's it. We don't get to debate those orders after the fact. We don't get to say, "Well, it's not how I would have done it," or "If only they had listened to ME." Too late at that point … and too cowardly. Few things are more damaging to our democracy than a military officer who doesn't have the moral courage to stand up for what's right or the moral fiber to step aside when circumstances dictate." - Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Admiral Micheal Mullen

Great quote and I wished to put it up based on what some people have been saying here (not talking about those who joke Petraeus as Caesar).

[Martin N]

The militarys role in our country is huge, im guessing you have, but ever heard of the Military Industrial Complex ?

[Farnan]

The most misquoted three words in US Politics...

Here is the speech about it: http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst3...ts/indust.html

Basically it deals with the fact we now have a dedicated arms industry, rather than improvising when war came and a permanent standing military of significant size. He said it was a necessity but we must not allow a military coupe to happen. He is not saying that a permanent large military and dedicated arms industry is a bad thing.

[Martin N]

Infact its much more, its the basic relationship between politics, the military, and industry that is why it is sometimes called the iron triangle, whereas they all connect and support each other, the industry, gains money from politicans in return for congressional votes which can guarantee re election, The money goes to research and devolopment which is then used in the military and defense contractors its a vicious system, very simple but crucial to our military policy and spending, incase you didnt notice we spend 10 times any other country on our military, coincidence ?

[Farnan]

Infact its much more, its the basic relationship between politics, the military, and industry, whereas they all connect, the industry gains money from the politics for research and devolopment which is then used in the military and defense contracters, very simple but crucial to our military policy and spending, incase you didnt notice we spend 10 times any other country on our military, coincidence ?

We are also a superpower. Coincidence?

[Martin N]

So is countries like russia and china, you dont see them spending so much do you ? its because of the MIC that we spend so much.

[Farnan]

So is countries like russia and china, you dont see them spending so much do you ? its because of the MIC that we spend so much.

Neither China nor Russia are superpowers. And China as a percent of their GDP is higher than us, and Russia is only .16% lower than us.

Oh yea, and Russia's numbers don't include 200,000 of its soldiers who are under the Internal Ministry or the Russian Special Forces under the FSB.

[Da Skinna]

We are also a superpower. Coincidence?

More incidental, as Americans like Dean Rusk or Paul Nitze or George Kennan would claim. Or Wolfowitz.

There's no coincidence to America's supremacy, it's merely been providentially cloaked.

[Celsius]

If im ever in a position where I can control the Army of the United States or any other country in the world, time for a Coup d'etat

[Kiljan Arslan]

If im ever in a position where I can control the Army of the United States or any other country in the world, time for a Coup d'etat

I hope your joking.

[Barry Goldwater]

If im ever in a position where I can control the Army of the United States or any other country in the world, time for a Coup d'etat

Good luck facing the millions of loyalists man, you'll need it...x1000000

[Celsius]

I hope your joking.

Why would I be joking?

Time for a Military Dictatorship

[Martin N]

Neither China nor Russia are superpowers. And China as a percent of their GDP is higher than us, and Russia is only .16% lower than us.

Yeh but when you take into account how much we spend, not how much % we actually spend, it becomes quite clear, there is no longer need to spend so much, no single military in the world can match us, and thats not a good thing, we (us and nato) since the collapse of the soviet union, have had an orgy of spending on our militarys while they have been unable to spend a dime, now its come out that russia is rearming, it was obvious it was going to happen, we created more competition, we are still hostile to them no matter how you look at it farnan, we have them blocked in on all corridors, and with georgia joining nato its getting volatile.

If im ever in a position where I can control the Army of the United States or any other country in the world, time for a Coup d'etat

Hell yeah, be sweet wouldent it, im the type of person who would rather be in the army than leading it though, i couldent stand being a bearucrat, even though the army is just a tool of corrupt politicians, i would rather be in it.

[Farnan]

Yeh but when you take into account how much we spend, not how much % we actually spend, it becomes quite clear, there is no longer need to spend so much, no single military in the world can match us, and thats not a good thing, we (us and nato) since the collapse of the soviet union, have had an orgy of spending on our militarys while they have been unable to spend a dime, now its come out that russia is rearming, it was obvious it was going to happen, we created more competition, we are still hostile to them no matter how you look at it farnan, we have them blocked in on all corridors, and with georgia joining nato its getting volatile.

Umm...

% of GDP is far better than sheer amount...

And military spending as part of the budget fell greatly since the end of the Cold War. And the fact no one can match us is a good thing. That is kinda the point.

When another nation threatens the military power of the super power it causes major problems. The naval build up of Germany was a cause for WWI.

[Martin N]

Yeh, and why did germany build up its armies ? because the usa/gb/france restricted them completeley while keeping there own so heavily armed, like we did to russia, we wanted them to destroy there nukes while we kept most of ours, and now they are rearming, history is a when it repeats itself.

% of gdp means nothing when your gdp is alot more than the nations i mentioned, fair enough it means something if the GDP is the same for all countries.

We need a nation with the same power as us militarily to keep us in check, we have been running rampant for too long, dont forget farnan, we have been involved in every major war since our inception, i think thats quite an achievement.

[Farnan]

Yeh, and why did germany build up its armies ? because the usa/gb/france restricted them completeley while keeping there own so heavily armed, like we did to russia, we wanted them to destroy there nukes while we kept most of ours, and now they are rearming, history is a when it repeats itself.

% of gdp means nothing when your gdp is alot more than the nations i mentioned, fair enough it means something if the GDP is the same for all countries.

We need a nation with the same power as us militarily to keep us in check, we have been running rampant for too long, dont forget farnan, we have been involved in every major war since our inception, i think thats quite an achievement.

1. No, US, UK and France massively disarmed after WWI and during the interwar period which meant they were too weak to fight Germany. Hence if we disarmed we would be repeating history.

2. I was unaware we were in the Crimean War, the Austro-Prussian War, the Franco-Prussian War or the Wars of Italian Unification.

[DimondLight]

% of gdp means nothing when your gdp is alot more than the nations i mentioned, fair enough it means something if the GDP is the same for all countries.

It's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

[Valiant Champion]

Obama's youth brigades will negate any need for using the military on US soil.

[Barry Goldwater]

Why would I be joking?

Time for a Military Dictatorship

I believe most of the US military would just mutiny and shoot you, after all they are supposed to protect the US of A against all enemies - foreign and domestic

Obama's youth brigades will negate any need for using the military on US soil.

What? Since when was there an Obama Youth?

[Kiljan Arslan]

I believe most of the US military would just mutiny and shoot you, after all they are supposed to protect the US of A against all enemies - foreign and domestic



What? Since when was there an Obama Youth?

some idiots in Kansas who think obama is god nothing to worry about they'd be gun downed in seconds