Fire and Advance button

[masterproctor77]

So I used this button recently, and it doesn't work well when I used it, not to mention I don't see a point in using it very much since I hardly ever have to move units forward while firing, has anyone else experienced this?

I thought it might be a good thing for a modder or someone that is creative, to change the dynamics of the button to be a fall back button, so you can keep your unit firing and move backwards to a safer position, because I know I have needed to use that type of maneouver several times in my game. I would do it myself, except I have no idea where to even begin.

[Ballacraine]

That would be a handy thing to have.

[Archimonday]

Falling back like that is simple, you make a double line, and let each unit fall back on eachother, each covering the other as they retreat.

[caldwell77]

Falling back like that is simple, you make a double line, and let each unit fall back on eachother, each covering the other as they retreat.

Sound in principle but intensive micro management and not "simple" at all to execute. A fall back button would be useful.

I haven't found any value to Adv & fire either. I thought it would be a good way for grenadiers to get up close, but a quick run up has been easier to execute and seems to do the trick without the need of waiting for the research tree to catch up.

[PopBot]

Falling back like that is simple, you make a double line, and let each unit fall back on eachother, each covering the other as they retreat.

Which sounds great, until your realize you will be shooting the retreating line right in the face every time. You could do some complex micromanagement to avoid that, but that defeats the point of a simple method of retreating under covering fire. Also, I would imagine you would want three lines (three seperate units) to allow for reloading time.

[Bob the Insane]

Why Fire and Retreat when you could just have your army turn tail and run? The enemy soldiers can't catch them and can't stop to shoot without you quickly getting out of range.

You just need cavalry to cover the retreat from other cavalry.

I too am not sure what to make of Fire and Advance. When I have played with it I have used it for flanking units to stay in range of the enemy without my micromanaging them, but you have to watch for the unit they are targeted on routing though...

[Gora sahib]

I agree that the Fire and Advance (F&A)function seems somewhat less than spectacular - I think its best use is to fire and move on your target with the plan of using the bayonet once close. There may be a morale side to this that we dont know about - do units receiving Fire and Advance have to do morale checks more often?

The one thing I really dislike about F&A is that your troops adopt a skirmish spread formation - something that 1) Im not sure is historically accurate and 2) wastes time and 3) makes them vulnerable to bayonet charge. If your unit retained its 'regular' formation and used F&A it would be a far more appealing tactic.

Lastly, regarding your suggestion of adding a Fire and Retreat function ... sounds great, my only question is would it be historically accurate? Was that a maneuver executed on the 18th Century battlefield? I dont think it was, but I could be wrong.

[Stalins Ghost]

I find the main issue with Fire and Advance is that it takes too damned long to get going. By the time they've started rolling fowards, an enemy just standing in line will have got a couple of rounds of firing in.

[HMD Temeraire]

Don't upgrade it, to me its not very useful.

[larry]

Yes. there are historical examples of good order withdraws. I don't remember any specific "fire and retreat" situations of the top of my head. Try looking up General Moore's retreat from Spain in the early 1800's. also try checking through Wellingtons campaigns in Portugal and Spain.

[(GP)Echo]

I have to agree; Fire and Advance has a couple of problems as it's currently implemented.

1) The wider "skirmish" formation adopted just before execution takes valuable time away from firing your first volley. I would prefer they stay in a tight group.

2) There are delays in execution as your unit reforms after taking causalties. This prevents a consistent pace for the fire and advance, and reduces the effectiveness of the drill when compared to Rank Fire.

3) Due to the above problems, and the fact that Platoon Fire does not require it as a prerequisite, I skip the tactic entirely in my tech tree. I pursue Platoon Fire as fast as possible, as it is the most effective firing drill IMHO.

[snuggans]

to me it seems the only PRACTICAL use in-game for fire-and-advance is if you want to take a certain terrain that the enemy is placed upon. grenadiers will also inch closer while still firing and be able to unleash grenades at a certain point. of course you can do any of these things without activating the drill, but requires more micromanagement and is a less offensive transition than using fire-and-advance (unless the pathfinding craps out)

[Frederf]

The only value of fire and advance is as a stopgap measure before fire by rank is researched. Fire and Advance delivers a better rate of fire over the bare basic musket drill where the rear ranks are just replacements. It is completely outclassed by later research!

The forward movement of the troops during this drill is completely inconsequential. Only if CA fixed the stupid requirement for all ranks to be reloaded before beginning this drill anew, could it possibly have any value in the light of other drills. Then perhaps F&A would have the benefit of moderate but constant fire on the enemy formation where RF has high but short fire on the enemy.

[snuggans]

The only value of fire and advance is as a stopgap measure before fire by rank is researched.

one is able to research Fire by rank first.

[PGeo36]

The forward movement of the troops during this drill is completely inconsequential. Only if CA fixed the stupid requirement for all ranks to be reloaded before beginning this drill anew, could it possibly have any value in the light of other drills. Then perhaps F&A would have the benefit of moderate but constant fire on the enemy formation where RF has high but short fire on the enemy.

Yes, I noticed that as well, its like why does the whole line have to reload when the back line is already done, it would definitely make it much more useful that way.

[Frederf]

one is able to research Fire by rank first.

Oh, well then shut my mouth. Yes it is useless then.

Yes, I noticed that as well, its like why does the whole line have to reload when the back line is already done, it would definitely make it much more useful that way.

It's because of the way it was coded as a one shot "dance." To do the dance all soldiers must be ready (reloaded) before it can even begin. Once the last rank fires, the "dance" ends and it is looped. However at the beginning of every loop there is the requirement that everyone be ready so it waits for all ranks to reload before the next "dance" happens.

[tokaiser]

It took so long for me to use in battle I thought is wasnt working at all. Terrible tech upgrade, does nothing I would need in a battle at all. Even in a polished version of this I wouldnt use it.

[Randall Turner]

<shrug> Okay, seems it really does suck, at least I wasn't doing something wrong again.

[fluffstalker]

The strange thing was, I noticed the other day in Darth Mod, that the AI used it on me perfectly. It was utterly amazing. Usually when one clicks F n A, they mill about playing paddy cake, but the AI just stood in line, and began firing and advancing their ranks forward in seconds.

That being said, it didnt really help them. They were wasting their time moving forward while I sat tight with fire_by rank and decimated them. Even a few seconds not spent reloading and firing can mean the difference between routing them or being broken yourself.