does aid work...

[antaeus]

its a controversial topic at the moment...

there's been a lot of re-examining western aid to the third world, and in particular africa...

is it damaging and encouraging of corruption to simply give out money indefinitely?

does the chinese model for development - aimed at doing business with africa rather than simply giving out cash have merit?

do africans actually want aid? or is this degrading to live your life begging for handouts?

[The Longbowman]

Good question. I'd certainly say that in the past, Western aid has fallen into the hands of some pretty unsavoury characters in Africa and as such has not reached the people it was aimed for. Personally, I think aid is the way to go, but it should be invested in projects working on improving the infrastructure (Schools, Hospitals, roads etc...) of the countries rather than just giving the money to local officials.

I am sceptical to China's approach to 'helping' Africa. There is no doubt that they make huge benefits from their relationships with raw-material-rich African nations and some may say that they are taking advantage of the backwardness of these countries.

[antaeus]

I am sceptical to China's approach to 'helping' Africa. There is no doubt that they make huge benefits from their relationships with raw-material-rich African nations and some may say that they are taking advantage of the backwardness of these countries.

but the net result in china's approach, is that in countries where they are expanding, the economies are growing at rates unseen in this part of the world before... its a similar argument to those we had in the past about manufacturing in poorer asian countries like malaysia and south korea and taiwan, who have since boomed into first world economies..

its a good moral question... is it right to benefit financially from the third world... if you're improving the lives of the people you're earning money off?

[Nick_Since_1985]

Hi Antea


I read a thesis a while ago that proved that aid-work simply doesn't work. What we really should do is educate these people so that they learn to gouvern/build up their own country.


Greetz

Nick

[Erik]

Good question. I'd certainly say that in the past, Western aid has fallen into the hands of some pretty unsavoury characters in Africa and as such has not reached the people it was aimed for.

In the past, yes.

Personally, I think aid is the way to go, but it should be invested in projects working on improving the infrastructure (Schools, Hospitals, roads etc...) of the countries rather than just giving the money to local officials.

And this is EXACTLY how aid is done today.

its a good moral question... is it right to benefit financially from the third world... if you're improving the lives of the people you're earning money off?

I don't see why not.

If it's mutual-beneficial, then everybody should be happy.
Also, I think most Africans would feel a lot better about themselves if they were seen more as an asset than a problem by the rest of the world.

We have been given aid for several decades and frankly seen no real result from it

Where do you base this on?

I've seen plenty of results.
The Ghanaian village I grew up in has changed so much in the last 20 years that I hardly even recognize it anymore.
When I lived there there wasn't even electricity (we used a diesel generator, but the rest of the village was dark).
And now everybody is downloading porn off the internet.
And a lot of this is due to aid.

Also, if you look at raw stats like average income and life expectancy, you'll see that Africa has improved hugely over the past 20 years.
They just haven't progressed at the same pace as other continents.

Maybe you can't see the progress because you never bothered to take a look?

[Viking Prince]

Aid does indeed work. That does not mean all aid works or that all aid is justas effective. A Lutheran operated hospital in Kenya is certainly aid that works. Cheap food to feed the poor is a more complicated issue. If the region is so flooded with free food that the local market mechanisms break completely, the problem is more due to the amount of aid and the means of distribution.

A classic example is the use of mosquito netting dipped in poison to kill the malaria mosquitos. The west mass produces the netting and distributes it for free. Once distributed, there is no more netting. Locals that had been manufactuing and selling netting are pushed out of business and in a few years, there is an increase in malaria. But again, this is due to how the aid was given and not that aid was given. Assistance to subsidise individuals purchasing the netting that locals produce and distribute creates a supply chain that remains in place and helps the local economy. Education programs to convince the locals to use the netting will also increase demand and not disrupt the local economy.

Then there are the coffee programs in South America that try to get families to send kids to school and to grow coffee in sustainable family sized plantations. Most of the time these become cons and tricks to convince Western consumers rather than real aid for the local population. Westerners have differant standards regarding child labor that if implemented in the third world will actually make children worse off.

[Ishoss]

Aid as in just throwing money, food or whatever else to Africa is stupid. It won't work. We have to give them jobs, create jobs for them in Africa. This way they'll have a future there, a good future.

How we'll do it is complicated though, I mean, are we ready to give up a lot of our own economical markets to African corporations? Many Westerners would lose their jobs because it will be a lot cheaper to import from Africa (in the beggining at least) than to create products here.

[Gideon Goldgod]

"We have to do this...."
"We have to do that...."

We (insert your western country) don't have to do a damn thing. Nothing. What is the point at all of handing free things our own people create to others who create nothing?

[Tominokar]

"We have to do this...."
"We have to do that...."

We (insert your western country) don't have to do a damn thing. Nothing. What is the point at all of handing free things our own people create to others who create nothing?

Because many of todays problems in Africa stem from western colonialism/slavery/genocide, and continued meddling and deliberately induced-instability well into the 20th Century.

Not to mention we're born into wealth, and the vast majority of Africans are born into poverty. You didn't personally earn the lifestyle you've been born into. That extra $100 you might spend on getting a slightly bigger TV could feed an African child for over a year, and save them from starvation. Saving lives in Africa is cheap, and more important.

I don't think you personally have to do anything about it. It's obvious you don't want to help others, or at least not those of a different race and creed, so no one's going to make you. But at the same time you shouldn't try to drag everyone else and your goverment down to your level.

It's actually a very good (and important) question. We have been given aid for several decades and frankly seen no real result from it, so the clear answer is that aid, in the form we are current using, does not work!

You've seen no result of it because you haven't been there. I've been there, and I've seen the good from aid. But yes, only the right kind of aid. Bush spending millions on funding an abstinence campaign in Africa, for example, is the wrong kind of aid.

[Holger Danske]

You've seen no result of it because you haven't been there. I've been there, and I've seen the good from aid. But yes, only the right kind of aid. Bush spending millions on funding an abstinence campaign in Africa, for example, is the wrong kind of aid.

True. But we have throw billions of dollars into fruitless aid programs for decades now, and frankly things seems to be worse!
As mentioned throwing money and food at them has not solved anything and we can keep doing this for centuries and you'll still see no progress.

@Erik
Good for them, but that doesn't change the fact that most people in the western world believe that throwing money and food at poorly developed countries somehow transforms them into 1st class countries... Fact is: It doesn't...

And having access to internet is really not any pointer towards things are going sweet. Do they have thriving business going and do people have jobs, capable of feeding all the family members?

[Tominokar]

True. But we have throw billions of dollars into fruitless aid programs for decades now, and frankly things seems to be worse!
As mentioned throwing money and food at them has not solved anything and we can keep doing this for centuries and you'll still see no progress.

Where seems worse? The DRC has been in the same terrible situation for 30 years, and sees barely any aid because it's simply too dangerous for aid companies to move in.

There are many countrys that have improved a lot over the past few decades, and a lot of that is thanks to aid. Uganda has a fast growing economy, with lots of small businesses opening. It has the best education in Central Africa. This is thirty years after a brutal dictator.

Rural areas of Kenya and Tanzania have seen quality of life rise. Again, this is largely thanks to community projects.

Rwanda has by far made the most staggering recovery. When you go there today, it's difficult to believe that in just '94 there was a genocide that killed millions. If the people were white instead of black, you'd be forgiven for thinking you were in France when walking about the centre of Kigali.

The media doesn't show these small, or even large improvements. There may be some documentaries on them, but do you really seek them out? All that you see is the various conflicts through the news, which would have you believe the entire continent is a tropical hell hole.

People should stop assuming aid doesn't work, just because of the limited amount of coverage they see on the DRC, Somalia and Zimbabwe. There are other nations prospering compared to how they have been.

[Erik]

The media doesn't show these small, or even large improvements. There may be some documentaries on them, but do you really seek them out? All that you see is the various conflicts through the news, which would have you believe the entire continent is a tropical hell hole.

People should stop assuming aid doesn't work, just because of the limited amount of coverage they see on the DRC, Somalia and Zimbabwe. There are other nations prospering compared to how they have been.

You're absolutely right.

Westerners are really quick in dismissing aid as pointless, without even knowing the most basic facts and figures.
Especially when it comes to Africa, Western ignorance is embarrassingly rampant.

The solution is in this video:

I highly encourage everybody to watch it (if you've never seen it before). It will open your eyes and you will never see the world in the same way.

[antaeus]

True. But we have throw billions of dollars into fruitless aid programs for decades now, and frankly things seems to be worse!
As mentioned throwing money and food at them has not solved anything and we can keep doing this for centuries and you'll still see no progress.

there are a couple of problems i can identify with traditional aid programs...

the first is that long term aid is degrading. nobody, be they white folk from new york or black folk from nigeria wants to be dependent on aid long term. people dont want to beg for their existence... the fact that they have to means they are already in the worst state imaginable - brought on by war and poverty. living off aid is just hammering home to them how poor and worthless they are.

the second point, is that aid does not promote ownership of a situation. when you give food aid to someone, or clothing, or even basic development aid like schooling or medical support... its not their products... its free.. if it breaks down who cares because nobody in the village bought it in the first place - so it was a bonus while it was there... there is no value attached to free food or free village wells because they were free. how many of us go out and clean a park bench or sweep the pavement outside our house? how many of us will unblock a drain out on the street if we see its making a puddle? etc etc... we have no sense of ownership - giving things to the poor is the same.

both of these points i think emphasise the fact that solutions to poverty have to involve a certain amount of local direction or ownership of projects. there's no point in building and funding a hospital in uganda if its manned by foreign doctors indefinitely. rather, if you're going to invest in a hospital, you have to do it in such a way that you can walk away, without looking back, and know that it still runs. if we want the locals to care about it as if it was their own, we have to make it their own.

if its done right, then aid will eventually pay for itself by improving an economy and making them a trade partner. the way its done in the past seems to be like indefinite disaster relief

[Erik]

@Erik
Good for them, but that doesn't change the fact that most people in the western world believe that throwing money and food at poorly developed countries somehow transforms them into 1st class countries... Fact is: It doesn't...

But like I said: that's not how aid is done (anymore).

And having access to internet is really not any pointer towards things are going sweet. Do they have thriving business going and do people have jobs, capable of feeding all the family members?

I just gave the porn downloading as an example.
Of course everything there has modernized, including businesses.
It's like they have forwarded in time by 100 years or so.

[Holger Danske]

It's actually a very good (and important) question. We have been given aid for several decades and frankly seen no real result from it, so the clear answer is that aid, in the form we are current using, does not work!

Tbh I think it would be much smarter to begin investing in African business to help it get established as it will create jobs for the Africans and ultimately help across the board.
In my country there has been several example of people providing Africans with loans to vastly expand their cattle herds. The loan will of cause be paid back with interest as it is an investment, and as such both parties gain, and it has seen some good results. So I think the answer is to divert the aid into African creating a market for the Africans and help them with getting jobs established.

In any case a different strategy is needed if we are going to effectively fight poverty (in Africa)

However with the current situation I believe that we need to use the aid to get our own economies back on track before looking outside our borders again. In this time it would be up to organizations and not the government, as the government should always put it's own first!

[Ishoss]

It's actually a very good (and important) question. We have been given aid for several decades and frankly seen no real result from it, so the clear answer is that aid, in the form we are current using, does not work!

Tbh I think it would be much smarter to begin investing in African business to help it get established as it will create jobs for the Africans and ultimately help across the board.
In my country there has been several example of people providing Africans with loans to vastly expand their cattle herds. The loan will of cause be paid back with interest as it is an investment, and as such both parties gain, and it has seen some good results. So I think the answer is to divert the aid into African creating a market for the Africans and help them with getting jobs established.

Agreed. That's what we do at home when an area has huge unemployment. We help them establish new businesses. That's what we should be doing in Africa, instead we just throw money and food at them and hope it will solve their problems.

[antares24]

its a controversial topic at the moment...

there's been a lot of re-examining western aid to the third world, and in particular africa...

is it damaging and encouraging of corruption to simply give out money indefinitely?

does the chinese model for development - aimed at doing business with africa rather than simply giving out cash have merit?

do africans actually want aid? or is this degrading to live your life begging for handouts?

the big problem with aid is how we spend the money. At the moment there are a lot of big aid organization who use most of the money they receive for their own administrative/burecratic expenses.
The worst case being FAO, the UN food agency, who spend 90% (90%!!!!!) of the money it receives from western states on its own expences, and use only the remaining 10% to bring aid. This kind of situation is common for many so called no-profit organizations, sure there are those that actually do a very good work, but the others should be stripped of all the money they receive.
We can probably obtain the same results with less then half the money we spend actually.

This go without mentioning that the problem of future aid is really big, considering the fast rising populations in third world countries, climate change and increasing desertification (meaning less arable land = less food with more people to feed) and the scarcity of drinkable water. Our aid and medical treatments are a problem in a way, infact they're ensuring that child deaths are less (and that's good) without ensuring a lower birthrate (and that's really bad), meaning a lot more people to feed in the future.

African countries (and other poor countries) situation will get worse, not better in this century imho.

And this is EXACTLY how aid is done today.

erik i had some experience with the way aid is being done today, and i have to say that along some good, well thought projects, there a lot of short sighted and simply naive ones. For example building well done schools, that then however don't have enough teachers, in countries where child are not sented to schools but keeped by their parents at home or in the fields to help in the work, or building nice hospitals, that then don't have enough qualified nurse or doctors, not to mention medical material. Not exactly a way to improve a country....

[Ishoss]

Just to add to your last point, in the 18's Norway built a top modern fish-freezing plant for some African nation. The plan was too teach them how too freeze their fish for export.

The only problem was that the natives relied on their fish, and they wanted too consume and conserve it the traditional way.

[Desperado †]

do africans actually want aid? or is this degrading to live your life begging for handouts?

I'm sure those immediately starving do. Anyone would rather not having to beg, but sometimes there's no other way out.

[antaeus]

I'm sure those immediately starving do. Anyone would rather not having to beg, but sometimes there's no other way out.

i think we need to draw a distinction between immediate emergency aid and long term aid...

emergency aid is always welcome whether you're in somalia or canada because it addresses an immediate crisis which will help people get back on their feet... people will always welcome this because it helps an immediate crisis..

this is different to development aid which is open ended and ongoing..