tea in india?

**akinkhoo** · March 16, 2009, 11:19 PM

tea was not found in india until 1810, plantation only exist in 1830. only china and japan produces tea during 1700s. the tea trade was the primary product dutch and GB is interested in china. it is also the tea trade that made china the economic superpower of the century. the opium wars, followed by the crash of the tea trade after india started producing tea led to it's economic decline in the late 1800s.

**Phier** · March 16, 2009, 11:23 PM

Good catch.

**upsettingshorts** · March 16, 2009, 11:35 PM

I find this amusing because due to the way trade commodities are spread out, I'm constantly scrapping spice and sugar plantations (you can get those elsewhere) for tea in India.

Roleplay wise, I'm from the future and know all about tea in India so I'm jumpstarting it early.

**akinkhoo** · March 17, 2009, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by tdpatriots12

Roleplay wise, I'm from the future and know all about tea in India so I'm jumpstarting it early.

great scot, marty! you are not suppose to change the future!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pmBq...eature=related

**vindex246** · March 17, 2009, 05:10 AM

One for the modders. I wonder if there's a way for the modders to set up a new region, or at least a new port, for Canton. Can't believe there's no China trade.

**masterproctor77** · March 17, 2009, 12:27 AM

Wow, I learn something new every day.

**DJ_JasonX** · March 17, 2009, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by akinkhoo

tea was not found in india until 1810, plantation only exist in 1830. only china and japan produces tea during 1700s. the tea trade was the primary product dutch and GB is interested in china. it is also the tea trade that made china the economic superpower of the century. the opium wars, followed by the crash of the tea trade after india started producing tea led to it's economic decline in the late 1800s.

firstly, biological research has shown that tea is indigenous to india.
secondly, consumption of tea is first documented in the ramayana (older than 500BC), then in 1st century AD buddhist stories.

your point relates to the commerical production of tea, but to say "it was not found in india" is terribly wrong.

**Phier** · March 17, 2009, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by DJ_JasonX

firstly, biological research has shown that tea is indigenous to india.
secondly, consumption of tea is first documented in the ramayana (older than 500BC), then in 1st century AD buddhist stories.

your point relates to the commerical production of tea, but to say "it was not found in india" is terribly wrong.

It was not found in India by the British or the Dutch, which would be the only ones it matters to at this point for this game.

**DJ_JasonX** · March 17, 2009, 09:32 AM

from here

"In 1598, a Dutch traveller, Jan Huyghen van Linschoten, noted in a book about his adventures that the Indians ate the leaves as a vegetable with garlic and oil and boiled the leaves to make a brew. "

**♔Spike♔** · March 17, 2009, 09:57 AM

Abouth the tea in india,

The first people who discovered tea were the Portugeze in 1559, it was discovered in japan 1559. Abouth 1610 a small bag of tea came to the netherlands because of curiosity. Later in the 17e century the VOC started to bring loads of bags to the Netherlands. That tea came from Batavia, were the tea was dilivered from China. In the 18e century loads of dutch were drinking tea, so the VOC started to import it themselves from Canton and China. On Java and Sumatra the dutch made themselves tea pantages. The English did the same in India and on Sri Lanka (called Ceylon in that time, there the name from 'Ceylonthee'). Tea was till the end of the 18e century very expencive to drink. Thats also why some people build some special tea houses in their garden.

" batavia "

Batavia was the Capitol of the Dutch Colony Dutch India, wich now is called Jakarta.

so much to tea

**vindex246** · March 18, 2009, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by DJ_JasonX

firstly, biological research has shown that tea is indigenous to india.
secondly, consumption of tea is first documented in the ramayana (older than 500BC), then in 1st century AD buddhist stories.

your point relates to the commerical production of tea, but to say "it was not found in india" is terribly wrong.

Wild tea originally came from the mountains separating India and China, where uncultivated tea bushes still grow to the size of tree.

But other posters are correct, the most important point is that the first "tea plantations" were started by the British in Assam (the hill country north of Bengal) in the 19th Century. Even the Chinese didn't really have tea plantations, per se, although they did cultivate it extensively. Part of the reason the British started planting tea in India is because Chinese methods couldn't keep up with global demand.

**Hun Birodalom** · March 17, 2009, 10:18 AM

Interesting, I was wondering where tea was in the game. I guess I better invade India, tea is selling quite well on the market. I'm already getting a huge supply of ivory from Africa and spices from the Indies, might as well get some tea.
About China, well I guess it's not included in the game because making it only a trading theater would be completely inaccurate and making it a nation would be a huge amount of work and than they would have had to add Japan, Korea ... etc.
I hope there will be multiple expansions/DLC's. Maybe they can add nations like China and Japan in those.

**akinkhoo** · March 17, 2009, 01:08 PM

your point relates to the commerical production of tea, but to say "it was not found in india" is terribly wrong.

it wasn't FOUND in india, UNTIL 1810. how can you grow tea plantation before you discover the native has tea? they didn't manage to commercialize it until half a century later. if anything they should make tea plantation a late tech to unlock, then it would make sense.

About China, well I guess it's not included in the game because making it only a trading theater would be completely inaccurate

i feel it would actually be fairly accurate to just be a trading theatre then a campaign since all china and japan actually did with the "pale devils" in the 1700s is trade. of course, there is also the religious Jesuit, but the games religious feature is far less than MTW anyway.

**Ludicus** · March 17, 2009, 02:00 PM

For the Dutch, in the beggining of the 18th century, the VOC empire of the spices suddenly changed (in one generation) to an empire of coffee, from Ceylon (Praengler, west Java)
Coffee from Java, profits/year: 1 million ponds in 1722; 6 million ponds in 1733.
-----------
For the EIC, it was the triumph of tea imported from China: one million pounds/year, and in 1770, 9 millions pounds/year

Source, John Keay´s The Spice Route, published in 2005

**Fianóglach** · March 17, 2009, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by akinkhoo

it wasn't FOUND in india, UNTIL 1810. how can you grow tea plantation before you discover the native has tea? they didn't manage to commercialize it until half a century later

Source?

Sure the EIC did'nt own plantations until the late 1780's but that didnt mean that traders and merchants were'nt selling Tea for export long long before then. I find it hard to believe we didn't know about Tea until 1810, where was it hiding for the 400 years Europeans had been in India prior to that random date you selected?

**Ludicus** · March 17, 2009, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Fianóglach

Source?

I find it hard to believe we didn't know about Tea until 1810, where was it hiding for the 400 years Europeans had been in India prior to that random date you selected?

Well, in 1559 the tea was already trade with the far east, most controlled by the Portuguese ships, but it wasn´t a profitable item, it was expensive, consumed by the aristocracy. In 1662 the Portuguese wife of Charles II, Catarina de Bragança, introduced the tea as a beverage to the English court - and the demand of tea increased. Later, the EIC opened tea trade with China, Canton.
In 1660, tea trade was not yet profitable. By 1720, the tea price dropped (previous post) and become popular.

**akinkhoo** · March 18, 2009, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by Fianóglach

Sure the EIC did'nt own plantations until the late 1780's but that didnt mean that traders and merchants were'nt selling Tea for export long long before then.

yes they traded chinese tea but there is no tea plantation in india in the 1700s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assam_tea
According to another account, the Assamese nobleman, Maniram Dewan, led Robert Bruce to the plant in 1823. Before his death in 1825, Robert passed on his knowledge to his brother Charles, who sent seeds of the plant to Calcutta in 1831. In 1833 the British lost the monopoly of the Tea trade with China and the Tea Committee dispatched the secretary George Gordon to China to study the methods and begin tea plantation in Assam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darjeeling_tea
Tea planting in the Indian district of Darjeeling was begun during 1841 by a Dr. Campbell, a civil surgeon of the Indian Medical Service. Campbell was transferred to Darjeeling in 1839 and used seeds from China to begin experimental tea planting, a practice that he and others continued during the 1840s. The government also established tea nurseries during that period. Commercial exploitation began during the 1850s.

it is strange that the people who ask for source often doesn't back their claim with sources themselves.

j/k

**the_mango55** · March 18, 2009, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by akinkhoo

it wasn't FOUND in india, UNTIL 1810. how can you grow tea plantation before you discover the native has tea? they didn't manage to commercialize it until half a century later.

Indeed, and the Ottomans never took over Russia in this time period either. We had better make it impossible for the player to do!

**akinkhoo** · March 18, 2009, 07:03 PM

Even the Chinese didn't really have tea plantations, per se, although they did cultivate it extensively. Part of the reason the British started planting tea in India is because Chinese methods couldn't keep up with global demand.

China does maintain tea plantation, tea were systematically processed, sorted of quality and branded. the reason why the British grew their own tea is because it is more expensive to buy them from China which is a government control monopoly.

monopoly is the problem, like oil you don't want to kill your own profit. the British goal is to break the monopoly, creating the "cheap" tea supply we have today.