IB2 VANDALORVM II DISCUSSION/FEEDBACK

[SaberHRE]

When the first IB came out it brought a little tear to my eye. It was the first time i've actually enjoyed playing RTW:BI. Initially I wasn't used to the weirdly looking units, but soon I came to love them. Ever since, many things have changed in IB. So I've just recently tested out IB 2 and the same feeling that brought a tear to my eye, came back . Thank you guys for this.

I have question though. I wondering will IB 2 follow the route of numerous submods, or will there be a campaign with the whole WRE and ERE?

[Hrimfar]

I think the map is really too large. I'd like a smaller map with more themed surroundings, at the mom. in beta the campaign map is one big green blobb, nothing that interest me really.

[Floit]

First of all: congrats for this great mod

I downloaded it yesterday and was really impressed by the detailed units.
But i also enjoyed playing the campaign as WRE...
One thing i would like to mention, which didnt appeal to me was the AI's behaviour.
I play on vh but neither the vandals, nor the visigoths did threaten me in any way. Actually they seeked a ceasefire and even an alliance with me and therefore i had no problems at all to build up my economy and stabilize my empire...
Even though my african territories were really outnumbered (for reasons of money-saving^^) the vandals didnt invade, nor tried the Visigoths to conquer anything in Gaul, and the rebels stayed passive either. So what i would have expected is a feeling of fighting for the mere existence, a constant threat, you surely know what i mean.

Nevertheless, the game experience is really stunning and i cannot wait to play the complete version of this mod Keep up the great work!!!

[Riothamus]

First of all: congrats for this great mod

I downloaded it yesterday and was really impressed by the detailed units.
But i also enjoyed playing the campaign as WRE...
One thing i would like to mention, which didnt appeal to me was the AI's behaviour.
I play on vh but neither the vandals, nor the visigoths did threaten me in any way. Actually they seeked a ceasefire and even an alliance with me and therefore i had no problems at all to build up my economy and stabilize my empire...
Even though my african territories were really outnumbered (for reasons of money-saving^^) the vandals didnt invade, nor tried the Visigoths to conquer anything in Gaul, and the rebels stayed passive either. So what i would have expected is a feeling of fighting for the mere existence, a constant threat, you surely know what i mean.

Nevertheless, the game experience is really stunning and i cannot wait to play the complete version of this mod Keep up the great work!!!

Hi Floit, we thank you for your input.

Just wondering if you downloaded the patch. Its too make things for the Romans more difficult. We are working on a second beta patch that will have the barbarians quickly knocking at your door

I think the map is really too large. I'd like a smaller map with more themed surroundings, at the mom. in beta the campaign map is one big green blobb, nothing that interest me really.

Hi Hrimfar,

If the time period doesn't interest you then the mod might not either. It's a beta version, the map and units currently created for playability and not so much aesthetics yet.

When the first IB came out it brought a little tear to my eye. It was the first time i've actually enjoyed playing RTW:BI. Initially I wasn't used to the weirdly looking units, but soon I came to love them. Ever since, many things have changed in IB. So I've just recently tested out IB 2 and the same feeling that brought a tear to my eye, came back . Thank you guys for this.

I have question though. I wondering will IB 2 follow the route of numerous submods, or will there be a campaign with the whole WRE and ERE?

Thanks SaberHRE..

We aren't yet sure about submods and so forth. Some discussion about about but it certainly is a possibility.

[Floit]

Hi Floit, we thank you for your input.

Just wondering if you downloaded the patch. Its too make things for the Romans more difficult. We are working on a second beta patch that will have the barbarians quickly knocking at your door

Yay, i did install the patch, thats why i was a bit dazzled about the passiveness of the AI.
Looking forward for the patch you mentioned.
Im sure that the mod in the end will play out as gripping as IB I.

[Floit]

So i restarted the WRE campaign on H/H and after 6 turns, taraconensis suddenly belonged to my faction... dont know why, there were no messages or anything concerning that, it just was my province... is this a bug? ( i attached a screenshot)

[Sanskrit_Bandit]

will there be an eventual diversication of the visigothic and vandal rosters?

[midnite]

will there be an eventual diversication of the visigothic and vandal rosters?

Ramon will make the final decision but I am working right now on shields among other things. You will be able to pick out a goth unit from a vandal unit. I believe new units will also be added to the rosters.

[Studpuffin]

Hi everyone,

I was just wondering if you guys had any news on what the next step in the beta will be and perhaps when it might be coming. Where will be the next place we get to battle trousered barbarians and perfumed romans?

Thanks,
StudPuffin

[Riothamus]

Hi everyone,

I was just wondering if you guys had any news on what the next step in the beta will be and perhaps when it might be coming. Where will be the next place we get to battle trousered barbarians and perfumed romans?

Thanks,
StudPuffin

I'm going to post soon an IB2 Beta Patch II Info and discussion thread soon

I don't know if this helps out, but concerning the financial situation of the Roman's at the time (I am a historian in this field), inflation was sky rocket. Bread was extraordinarily expensive. The fine armor that the Romans had during the beginning of the pax romana was too expensive for the armies, and they had resorted to german fashions. Most of the roman army at this time consisted of germans anyway. military discipline had dwindled as past-Roman values changed with catholicism. With inflation so high, there was nothing fancy or great about the roman army. its previous glory was no more. On the basis of chainmail, that was not a roman military fashion, but celtic. metal was too expensive, and failing roman economics rendered troops to be armored in leather plate links. I forget the word for it right now, but metal was not common in the army. Shields were wood. Helmets would be metal, as of course, swords and spear points. But i don't suppose the MTW2 engine isn't designed to handle separate kingdom economics?

This is an interesting post dajarvi and will come back to it with an edit when I have some time to respond

[Draco Borealis]

Catholicism in V century Rome? So Rome fell becouse of Vatican-Jesuist conspiracy?
You can argue that Germanics were taking new Romano-Parthian fashions via arms and luxury products import since III century; that mail armor was more easy to poduce and maintain for six hundred thousands men strong army in new state own weapon factories, Iranian copied Spatha was better suited to new mobile warfare than old gladius and that Half Vandals like Falvius Stilicho or half Scytians like Flavius Aetius were better Romans than useless but PC Ravenna Palace Emperors, But the point is nothing including one thousand years of future existance of Roman Empire in east won't change the minds raised on Gibbons legend about "True Rome" ending with death of Marc Aurelius and all of dramatic doom and gloom V century theories. In my opinion Aetius could Rescue Empire in the west by assasinating Walentinian and his clique and promoting people like Aedigus, Maiorian or Arelius Ambrosianus. What empire needed in V century was basicly another soldier emperor like Constantine; unfortunetly we got Honorius instead. Untill VII century all mediterean basin was still culturaly and economicly one Roman Comonwealth (Romania) with Barbarians like Franks or Goths either 1% of population and/or rapidly romanising themself. Until Umayids and Karolings emerged as new claimants to universal power with their rival ideologies of Islam and "Roman Catholicism" there was nothing seriusly oposing Ortodox Romanitas. NWO is VIII not XXI phenomen.

[dajarvi]

Alright. I have thoroughly tested the beta. I must say that I love the battle map. The detail to units and animations are really delicious. I also like the use of rivers on the campaign map. The color, the feel--it all blends together really well. Now for the constructive criticism:

Lots of folks have already posted really good ideas, so I will try to add something original. Try. =) The use of pagan temples could be used for not only as they are currently, but different temples could provide different units. It would be interesting to see a few more playable factions. I know Britannia has been overdone, but it is a good opportunity to provide a barbaric rise of Arthur, since the Roman legions have left. Maybe provide certain scripting for minor nations who are not playable who soul purpose is to raid Britannia. Like the irish. The saxons. It would also be interesting to somehow incorporate the Eastern half of the Roman Empire. Maybe they could replace the senate--occasionally offering military or financial assistance. The Romans wouldn't have exactly seen the take over of the Western half of their Empire as an invasion, but of political unrest. In fact, when the Germans took Rome, they didn't ransack the city or the temples. They just simply sent a letter to the Emperor in the East and said they were now the representatives of the Western half of the empire. Overall, a larger map is needed, but it doesn't have to include the east.

It would also be interesting to see the use of castles. Feudalism was very Germanic, and fortified homes, or castles, were coming into existence. Especially in extremely hostile environments like in Britannia and northern France. In fact, historically, city populations dispersed drastically. Most of the population dwelled in the rural areas. they idea of a "peasant" or serfdom was already in full affect. There were far more castles than cities. An idea, there, would be to have more castles, and make cities something for lords to fight over--a valuable source of extra wealth. The Dark Ages aren't dark, anymore. Historians consider it the Early Middle Ages, as so much archeology and discoveries have been made that really brighten it up.

In the case of the Vandals, they were at first strong, but did not survive very long. Rome, at the time of their usurpation, did not have a strong interior army because they could not afford it. The first defeat outside Constantinople was pretty much a clear path for the germans. Rome should be far weaker and more disorganized than the game portrays them. The germans were far more superior, militarily and in wealth. One of the big reasons the germans did not take constantinople was because it was impenatrable.

You could incorporate more german and celtic tribes as they compete against each other to become the representative of the Western half of the Empire.

[Riothamus]

Alright. I have thoroughly tested the beta. I must say that I love the battle map. The detail to units and animations are really delicious. I also like the use of rivers on the campaign map. The color, the feel--it all blends together really well. Now for the constructive criticism:

Lots of folks have already posted really good ideas, so I will try to add something original. Try. =) The use of pagan temples could be used for not only as they are currently, but different temples could provide different units. It would be interesting to see a few more playable factions. I know Britannia has been overdone, but it is a good opportunity to provide a barbaric rise of Arthur, since the Roman legions have left. Maybe provide certain scripting for minor nations who are not playable who soul purpose is to raid Britannia. Like the irish. The saxons. It would also be interesting to somehow incorporate the Eastern half of the Roman Empire. Maybe they could replace the senate--occasionally offering military or financial assistance. The Romans wouldn't have exactly seen the take over of the Western half of their Empire as an invasion, but of political unrest. In fact, when the Germans took Rome, they didn't ransack the city or the temples. They just simply sent a letter to the Emperor in the East and said they were now the representatives of the Western half of the empire. Overall, a larger map is needed, but it doesn't have to include the east.

It would also be interesting to see the use of castles. Feudalism was very Germanic, and fortified homes, or castles, were coming into existence. Especially in extremely hostile environments like in Britannia and northern France. In fact, historically, city populations dispersed drastically. Most of the population dwelled in the rural areas. they idea of a "peasant" or serfdom was already in full affect. There were far more castles than cities. An idea, there, would be to have more castles, and make cities something for lords to fight over--a valuable source of extra wealth. The Dark Ages aren't dark, anymore. Historians consider it the Early Middle Ages, as so much archeology and discoveries have been made that really brighten it up.

In the case of the Vandals, they were at first strong, but did not survive very long. Rome, at the time of their usurpation, did not have a strong interior army because they could not afford it. The first defeat outside Constantinople was pretty much a clear path for the germans. Rome should be far weaker and more disorganized than the game portrays them. The germans were far more superior, militarily and in wealth. One of the big reasons the germans did not take constantinople was because it was impenatrable.

You could incorporate more german and celtic tribes as they compete against each other to become the representative of the Western half of the Empire.

We thank you dajarvi and I personally enjoy your posts and ideas. Agree that ''Rome should be far weaker and more disorganized than the game portrays them.'' This is currently being worked on. I think the disorganization, inflation and the war and the political manuvering between Aetuis and Bonifacius would spin a downward spiral for the ruin of the WRE much faster as the go ahead by Bonifacius to the Vandals to take Africa.

Remember though in 429AD Aetius was very successful fighting all other incursions in Gaul. He defeated the Franks and held the Visigoths held in check. Not all was yet lost. As for ''The Germans were far more superior, militarily and in wealth.'' This I don't agree with..maybe in 463AD this holds water but not in my own opinion as of 429AD. The WRE in 429AD I think still held the upper hand.

I like your idea about using castles,.It certainly sets up a historical dark age-feudal feeling

I cant speak for the Ramon and the IB2 team but a larger map including Britain, of Gaul, Germania up to the Eastern Empire would be magnificent that also included other factions such as you mentioned. Another mod that we have an alliance and a great deal of respect for, EOR, already is making use of the Eastern Empire and the Sassanids so unfortunately I would think Constantinople is not in the cards

[Floit]

I like your idea about using castles,.It certainly sets up a historical dark age-feudal feeling

I cant speak for the Ramon and the IB2 team but a larger map including Britain, of Gaul, Germania up to the Eastern Empire would be magnificent that also included other factions such as you mentioned. Another mod that we have an alliance and a great deal of respect for, EOR, already is making use of the Eastern Empire and the Sassanids so unfortunately I would think Constantinople is not in the cards

I support the idea... this would add a more realistic feeling and put the romans under constant pressure.
Even though the ERE would propably not be in (as you mentioned), adding the ostrogoths would create a harder challenge to the east, since with the map ending where it does now, you can forget about the whole area east of the adriatic sea.

[Riothamus]

It would also be interesting to see the use of castles. Feudalism was very Germanic, and fortified homes, or castles, were coming into existence. Especially in extremely hostile environments like in Britannia and northern France. In fact, historically, city populations dispersed drastically. Most of the population dwelled in the rural areas. they idea of a "peasant" or serfdom was already in full affect. There were far more castles than cities. An idea, there, would be to have more castles, and make cities something for lords to fight over--a valuable source of extra wealth. The Dark Ages aren't dark, anymore. Historians consider it the Early Middle Ages, as so much archeology and discoveries have been made that really brighten it up.

Sort of from the institution of coloni, first bound to the land for life...then it carried to most other trades. The WRE administration was becoming to be seen as the oppressor when as the German noble within those lands became sought out as the protector even though he carried over the same coloni system.

[Die_and_Walk]

Hello Everyone


maybe if EOR is released we can make same a mod?
i love the frankish history maybe a mod over the rise of the Dark Age Franks?
the rise of the christianity in France?

Bye.

[Nakharar]

IBII will have Franks in their grand campaign i think

[Optimus Marcus Ulpius Traianus]

First impressions of the mod are great loved it but for improvements i would say that the Barbarians do need to be more powerful not rome weaker. I also think that the stock piling of money that seams to happen in all total war should be stopped eg any faction seems to be able to amass a huge fortune which means that even after loosing a huge number of men in battle they can be replaced to easily maybe giving higher army up keep + more expensive recruitment and buildings could solve this (because as far as i know part of the challlange of being emporer was trying to keep the empire out of debt not reclining on huge mountians of gold especially in 429AD)

[Riothamus]

First impressions of the mod are great loved it but for improvements i would say that the Barbarians do need to be more powerful not rome weaker. I also think that the stock piling of money that seams to happen in all total war should be stopped eg any faction seems to be able to amass a huge fortune which means that even after loosing a huge number of men in battle they can be replaced to easily maybe giving higher army up keep + more expensive recruitment and buildings could solve this (because as far as i know part of the challlange of being emporer was trying to keep the empire out of debt not reclining on huge mountians of gold especially in 429AD)

We built up cities to have more buildings farms etc..and even more so in the lands not occupied by the foederati Germanic tribes. This was done for realism. Roman army upkeep you will definitely see a major difference and you will feel the Roman pains of this era..Recommend you download the second patch that will be out shortly

[Optimus Marcus Ulpius Traianus]

We built up cities to have more buildings farms etc..and even more so in the lands not occupied by the foederati Germanic tribes. This was done for realism. Roman army upkeep you will definitely see a major difference and you will feel the Roman pains of this era..Recommend you download the second patch that will be out shortly

sounds excellent