Recent Decline in Video Gaming - True?

[VOP2288]

Just a topic I started with a friend of mine earlier this evening that I want to bring to the TWC table...

Are video games on a downhill trend in quality as the hobby gains more and more popularity?

To me, and feel free to correct me on my history of video games, it seems that when video games first started to get made they were made with a strong obligation to the players. Lots of detail and work went into story lines, gameplay, and the like. They were essentially video games made by gamers for gamers - and at this time that wasn't a very wide population.

Then, let's say in the '90s, video games began to grow into immensely popular forms of entertainment and it's almost as if it was then that companies realized what a cash cow video game entertainment was steadily becoming.

Thus leading to more and more games being released with flashing lights and pretty colors and promises of gameplay components and such that didn't end up existing or weren't as in depth as they seemed...but that didn't matter b/c people were buying them regardless.

Popularity went up, quality started to go down...instead of a developer or publisher putting out one or two solid games a year we now have them putting out 3 or 4 or more "incomplete" or "shallow" titles that the consumer eats up any way...and then whines about in magazine reviews and word of mouth.

Now, today we have these video game conglomerates (Ubisoft, EA, etc) putting out titles that either a) are buggy and incomplete or b) lack the amount of depth or quality we expect to get for our $60 - yet the market keeps eating it up with a smile.

Three games come to mind: Fable II, the Madden series, and Empire: TW. All three are big name titles...yet Fable II was released with bugs out the ass that are anything but unnoticeable, the Madden title are essentially all the same only with updated rosters/improved graphics/random useless gameplay elements added each year, and Empire was also essentially shipped broken as many are experiencing constant CTDs and having copious amounts of install and gameplay errors. Yet, we the players are supposed to buy these games and keep a smile on our faces solely based on the fact that these are the newest and best titles.

Will this decline just keep going or do you think that it will start to rise again? Will developers and publishers come to their senses and start either a) making bug-free, expert tested, and beautifully run games that come out when their DONE and not when it's the BEST time to make a profit or b) making games that are 100% worth their high prices?

I'm not sure...I think the only way really to get this point across to these game makers is a massive blow to their sales...which unfortunately will never happen.

Thoughts?

[Haakon]

The days of bedroom programming are unfortunately over, and I think that is one of the reasons the overall quality seems to have declined. While in the past, you would have a group of friends who would be utterly dedicated to create a great game, today you have developers having to sign agreements with publishers who are only in it for the money.

The way I see it, the biggest problem is that the videogame industry turned into a monster like the movie industry. The big companies are in it for the money, to give their rubbish shareholders more money. Not because they WANT to, or like creating games. If it means creating Resident Evil 54, or Rainbow Six VS Alien vs Predator vs Batman then thats what they will do. If EA stopped making money on games tomorrow, they would quit and do something else. Just like the movie industry who is so fat, bloated and corrupt they run out of ideas and needs to rely on sequels and remakes, the same thing is happening to the game industry. Only games rip each other off far more than the movie industry. Titles such as deadspace, we have seen it ALL before, yet it has a multi billion dollar company hyping it with tv ads, magazine ads and so forth making people belive it is something it isn't(i.e good)

I can see two things happening. Two scenarios, one realistic one not so realistic. The realistic scenario is all companies becoming EA like, spewing out annual titles/sequels that are crap. The Britney spears and Puff Daddys of the gaming industry. The other scenario being companies going bankrupt because no one wants to buy their games. However, considering stupid parents buy their stupid kids stupid games based on stupid hype its not going to happen.

[Draco Borealis]

in few words: 12 years old playing on consoles:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Compare Fallouts 1 and 2 done by gamers for gamers to console dumbed Betslop FO3.

[Thanatos]

It's what happens when something becomes industrialized - 95% of everything coming out immediately becomes total crap.

[Wheelchair]

Meh, alot of good games are still released... Kinda.......

I think its just because theres alot more games being released, therefor more will be bad.

[Stalins Ghost]

False.

ETW.
L4D.
Fallout 3.
Team Fortress 2
Dawn of War 2.
World of Goo.
Quake Live.
Sins of a Solar Empire (Plus Entrenchment).

I'm seriously struggling for time at the moment.

[RVFVS]

Ah see I dont think so.

Sure there is more LOTR Conquests out there then Elder Scrolls Oblivion but think of the few greats that have been released in the past 10 years.

Kotor 1 and 2
Fallout 3
RTW
ETW
Mass Effect
Fable II (which WAS pretty good)
Europa Universalis
Halo 1
GOW 1 and 2
Morrowind
Oblivion


All that and more. While I think EA and Ubisoft ARE ruining the game industry I dont think it has been forsaken.

[Haakon]

False.

ETW.
L4D.
Fallout 3.
Team Fortress 2
Dawn of War 2.
World of Goo.
Quake Live.
Sins of a Solar Empire (Plus Entrenchment).

I'm seriously struggling for time at the moment.

Ah see I dont think so.

Sure there is more LOTR Conquests out there then Elder Scrolls Oblivion but think of the few greats that have been released in the past 10 years.

Kotor 1 and 2
Fallout 3
RTW
ETW
Mass Effect
Fable II (which WAS pretty good)
Europa Universalis
Halo 1
GOW 1 and 2
Morrowind
Oblivion


All that and more. While I think EA and Ubisoft ARE ruining the game industry I dont think it has been forsaken.

Not that impressive considering the amount of games produced. And, on tese lists there are game that are hardly better than average.

[gambit]

Not that impressive considering the amount of games produced. And, on tese lists there are game that are hardly better than average.

Right, except for the better than average part. They're all fantastic games (except I dont have a damn clue what world of goo is, but my mind is spawning a land filled with sexual innuendo) its just with the amount of games that have come out they're more like diamonds in the rough, rather than proof on an industries genuine awesomeness.

[Stalins Ghost]

Not that impressive considering the amount of games produced. And, on tese lists there are game that are hardly better than average.

First - Average according to you.

Second - Quantity does not equal quality.

I've been gaming since '93. I've not had a period where I've struggled to find the time to play all the stuff I want to as much as the past couple of years.

[Haakon]

First - Average according to you.

Second - Quantity does not equal quality.

I've been gaming since '93. I've not had a period where I've struggled to find the time to play all the stuff I want to as much as the past couple of years.

First, I rate games on overall performance.

Second , if you knit 10 sweaters and 8 of them are crap. Then you are not very good at kniting.

Third, I've been gaming since 85, and the reason you struggle is probably just because you got access to more games i.e can afford them/more games on the home market while in the past arcades had a great portion of the market.

Right, except for the better than average part. They're all fantastic games its just with the amount of games that have come out they're more like diamonds in the rough, rather than proof on an industries genuine awesomeness.

Good point, whole heartedly agreed on the latter. Thing is, I would give a game worse rating if its bugged and so on when released. Just because a game is great when its patched left and right doesnt mean one should excuse poor craftmanship.

[Thanatos]

ETW. - It's ok.
L4D. - Eh.
Fallout 3. - Good game.
Team Fortress 2 - Good game.
Dawn of War 2. - Decent.
World of Goo. - Haven't tried.
Quake Live. - You mean Quake 3? It's good, but c'mon, I refuse to count it in today's list of gaming.
Sins of a Solar Empire (Plus Entrenchment). - Haven't tried.
Kotor 1 and 2 - Meh. I still, to this day, cannot see why everyone thinks the story is that good.
Mass Effect - It was ok.
Fable II (which WAS pretty good) - It was ok.
Europa Universalis - Haven't tried.
Halo 1 - Meh. I'm a PC gamer too, and trust me, nothing new from Halo.
GOW 1 and 2 - Meh. Got bored incredibly quickly.
Morrowind - Haven't tried it.
Oblivion - It's ok.

[Larry Blackmon's Codpiece]

Another thread decrying the mainstream?

I really don't agree. There are bad games yes, but there are many great quality games out there too. They play well, they're fun, and they have lasting appeal or replay value. What else do you want? The TC listed 3 games, does that represent everything else? If the game looks phenomenal, then this board tends to look down on it as being "dumbed down" and "flashy" for the "mainstream" audiences. We now have the technologies to make photorealistic games, so why not use that power?

If you think you are part of a shrinking minority of gamers who like the "old school", "quality" games rather than today's supposed superficial and shallow trash, maybe it's you guys who don't recognize good games these days and not the rest of us?

Maybe you guys are just too picky?

[VOP2288]

Another thread decrying the mainstream?

I really don't agree. There are bad games yes, but there are many great quality games out there too. They play well, they're fun, and they have lasting appeal or replay value. What else do you want? The TC listed 3 games, does that represent everything else? If the game looks phenomenal, then this board tends to look down on it as being "dumbed down" and "flashy" for the "mainstream" audiences. We now have the technologies to make photorealistic games, so why not use that power?

If you think you are part of a shrinking minority of gamers who like the "old school", "quality" games rather than today's supposed superficial and shallow trash, maybe it's you guys who don't recognize good games these days and not the rest of us?

Maybe you guys are just too picky?

Have you ever considered that maybe it's not people like myself being to picky but rather people like you being too apathetic?

Look, I've done it myself plenty of times...a game comes out, I get real excited about it, buy it, play it and love it...but I can't deny I come across about 50+ bugs and glitches that do things like have me driving in mid-air cuz textures aren't loading correctly, save games getting corrupted, consistent CTDs, and some bugs and glitches that will actually cause me to have to start the game all over b/c something didn't load correctly, or something didn't register properly and thus I cannot continue forward.

It's more apathy than anything - we as gamers have come to expect and tolerate bugs (big and small) and other annoyances (technically-speaking) b/c that's what's common place - just b/c it's common place however doesn't mean it's right or acceptable does it?

Another example is the games themselves. We expect and forgive games that have crappy, incomplete, incoherent stories/characters/etc b/c we get to use chainsaws on guns or b/c the game is advertised as the end-all title of the year. Then we have games that do nothing but center on multiplayer...fleshing out that experience of the game and totally screwing over the single player portions...what about those that could care less for multiplayer and want a solid engaging story and single player experience? It's just too bad for them b/c sales indicate that gamers want multiplayer?

I understand that the video game industry is just that...an industry that concentrates on sales and money rather then high player opinion or satisfaction. That's how business and industry works...but does that mean it's perfectly acceptable that said businesses put out games that didn't get enough testing and development time to fix all the bugs and problems, or games that may flesh out certain experiences (i.e. multiplayer, innovative gameplay, etc) but neglect others (story, originality, multiplayer, gameplay, etc)?

I don't think so.

Sure there have been plenty of games out there that are great games and I own/love them, but like someone earlier stated...when a average of, let's use a random number here, 100 games come out across the board every year and there are 12 games that are actually really good games that's not that great of a statistic. Especially when those highly acclaimed games also have bugs and problems out the ass.

[hellheaven1987]

False.

ETW.
L4D.
Fallout 3.
Team Fortress 2
Dawn of War 2.
World of Goo.
Quake Live.
Sins of a Solar Empire (Plus Entrenchment).

I'm seriously struggling for time at the moment.

Nonsense.

1. Fallout 3 is one of most unstable games I ever saw; crush constantly without patch and even more unstable after patch.

2. Dawn of War 2 is quite a good game for SP, but the MP is completely sucked; I start wondering why they even pulled out beta when none of new patch even follows the experience from beta.

3. Sins of a Solar Empire is a good game, but the replaying value is too low; overall, it is quite a boring game after two weeks of constantly playing.

[Stalins Ghost]

Nonsense.

1. Fallout 3 is one of most unstable games I ever saw; crush constantly without patch and even more unstable after patch.

2. Dawn of War 2 is quite a good game for SP, but the MP is completely sucked; I start wondering why they even pulled out beta when none of new patch even follows the experience from beta.

3. Sins of a Solar Empire is a good game, but the replaying value is too low; overall, it is quite a boring game after two weeks of constantly playing.

Subjective opinion.

I had issues with Fallout 3 for the first week or so. No issues with it after patches/driver updates. Dawn of War 2 is excellent. I love it. Sins of a Solar Empire is just great. If you don't like it, fair enough, but I still say it's one of the best RTS's out there.

Regarding bugs in general, I honestly don't get that many that often - with the exception of STALKER: SHOC when it came out that used to crash for months - then I replaced my graphics card and all was well.

I get the feeling much is the case with ETW actually. I've had 2 crashes in 55 hours - one upon actually just exciting the game. I know a guy who crashes with it constantly, but he's on a damn laptop - that's simply the graphics card overheating.

[hellheaven1987]

Subjective opinion.

I had issues with Fallout 3 for the first week or so. No issues with it after patches/driver updates. Dawn of War 2 is excellent. I love it. Sins of a Solar Empire is just great. If you don't like it, fair enough, but I still say it's one of the best RTS's out there.

Nonsense, it is an objective opinion.

It is widely know how buggy Fallout 3 is. Dawn of War 2 is fine but its MP is also widely complained by players about its unbalance and distability. Sins of a Solar Empire is most bug-free game out of three, but I just feel boring after two weeks of playing when the best and only way to kick your opponent is to build a fleet and smash them.

Too bad, but I am a veteran of Heros of Might and Magic II... So I guess it is tough to satisfy me...

[PGeo36]

Well all I know is it used to be an accomplishment back in the day when I beat a game, nowadays I beat them like its my job, now that good be a decline of quality or that i'm just much more experienced than I was back then, but I think its probably a little of both.

[Stalins Ghost]

Nonsense, it is an objective opinion.

It is widely know how buggy Fallout 3 is. Dawn of War 2 is fine but its MP is also widely complained by players about its unbalance and distability. Sins of a Solar Empire is most bug-free game out of three, but I just feel boring after two weeks of playing when the best and only way to kick your opponent is to build a fleet and smash them.

Too bad, but I am a veteran of Heros of Might and Magic II... So I guess it is tough to satisfy me...

I've not had many issues with Fallout 3 since the first couple of patches. I've not had issues with my time Online with DOW II and have enjoyed it hugely. Sins - that is a subjective opinion. The new DLC adds a lot to it as well.

[sdomi_cabsav@Hotmail]

Money ruins everything, what ya expect. Dont lose heart it doesn't mean there aren't good games being produced in the indie scene. In fact im going to be creating an indie game later this year . But yea the games industry really has become the music industry and its horrible. The systematic dumbing down of the general population to allow for the kind of crap that gets created now to sell. Its a shame that money is the greatest motivator but you gotta remember these guys have to feed their families and they need a reward.