John Stossel on Transportation...

[MathiasOfAthens]

And why hes wrong.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/s...7057982&page=1

Aired on the last episode of 2020. Dont usually watch him, but I had to speak out on this.

He claims that the government shouldnt spend billions on building new roads or repairing old ones, instead they should open toll roads instead.

I disagree with both points. Id rather see increased mass transit, more money for rails, busses, trolleys. If he thinks toll roads are going to solve gridlock traffic more efficiently than more highways then hes mistaken. The only thing it is is a temporary patch over out countrys failing infrastructure and transportation. We cant just keep throwing cars onto the streets and think that in 20, 30, 50 years down the road everything will be dandy because we repaved the roads and/or built toll roads.

We need a massive increase in transportion funding directed at mass transit. I know rails can be laid in less than half a year if governments put their muscle behind it.

By JOHN STOSSEL and PATRICK MCMENAMIN
March 12, 2009

It's part of the stimulus plan. The government has announced it's going to spend billions of your dollars on building new roads, and fixing old ones. They say they'll do it efficiently. I say, bull.

Some people call the traffic jam on the way to work … driving into hell.
Tune in Friday March 13 at 10 p.m. ET for a special hour with John Stossel: "Bailouts and Bull."
Joseph Woo of Atlanta told us he has the most miserable commute in America.
The Texas Transportation Institute, a research division of Texas A&M, says Atlanta is America's second-most-congested city.
"You plan your day around traffic," Woo said. "Because you never know if there's going to be traffic or not. You have to leave an hour and 15 minutes in advance. This is why I don't drink coffee. If I drank coffee, my head would probably explode!"

Reason TV host Drew Carey went on radio station KFI AM 640 to search for the person with the worst commute in Los Angeles, the most congested city in America.
"Traffic goes all the way back in each direction blocks and blocks. There's no end in sight to it," he said on the radio. "And like a lot of places in America, it's only going to get worse."

In 2007, the Texas Transportation Institute found that traffic jams caused the average commuter to spend an extra 38 hours on the road and, according to the latest data from the U.S. Census Bureau (2003), the average commute takes 25 minutes.
Research by the Reason Foundation suggests that in 20 years, 29 cities will be as bad as Los Angeles.
We teamed up with Carey because he and Reason TV are frustrated with big government bull and they're searching for other ways to get things done, things like improving our daily commute. Carey and Reason TV eventually decided Los Angeles' most frustrated commuter is graphic artist Josh Lipking.
Every day Lipking checks out Sigalert and Google traffic before kissing his wife good-bye and driving into what Carey calls "hell."

[Viking Prince]

There are several reasons for toll roads. The tolls can be used to fund the maint. and repair as well as the iinitial construction of roads by those who use them. Tolls can also persuade users to choose when and where to go if the cost and benefit are not favorable.

The problem with your idea of massive expenditure of my money is that I may not agree with you idea. The tolls, fuel taxes, ect. solve this problem better than general revenue funds being used. I fail to see why this is a problem for you unless you are firmly convinced in free riding the system.

[Kiljan Arslan]

why not instead of a toll a tax on gas?

PLus JOhn Stossel is like Micheal Moore likes to play loose with the truth.

notice his sources are the reason foundation a libertarian think thank

Drew Carry a libertarian conservative

note his own word big goverment bull this shows a lack of objectivity and suggest that his words should be taken with a grain of salt.

[GuineaPig]

I remember when I was in Florida last month a Republican was campaigning against a new Florida passenger rail system because it would go past her office .

In all seriousness though, mass transit is the future and it should be the direction the majority of government funding should go towards when it comes to transportation infrastructure.

[Pickle_mole]

why not instead of a toll a tax on gas?

PLus JOhn Stossel is like Micheal Moore likes to play loose with the truth.

Definitely agree on moving the cost to gas tax.
I would HATE having to get the right change and stop and give it to someone, blow my brains out. Also i have heard in california the time you on the road (when you buy your ticket they have the time on it and when they look at the time on the end the figure out if you sped) and could give you a ticket. Dont know for sure though.

[Boer]

I thought the gas tax was basically a "toll" on every road. It seems like a higher gas tax would be cheaper to implement then a bunch of toll roads because nothing would have to be built and no one would need to be employed to man the toll booths.

[Kiljan Arslan]

Here Here but you see Stossel doesn't want the "big bad goverement" to get anything rather lets ell at an incredibly cheap price these roads to corporations and let them handle it.

[Viking Prince]

The problem wih the fuel tax is that it is impossible to assure that my fuel tax paid will go for maint. and replacement of the roads that I use.

Tolls can do this for places such as the interstate system with limited access.

Private provision of residential is also possible through homeowners' associations.

There still if the problem of higher traffic local roads and also the roads in poorer areas. At some point in the process of extracting tolls and taxes, there will be a diversion from a pay as used system to redistribution for the poor and for poorer areas or simply low use roads that society values.

[Kiljan Arslan]

then have a referendum to change the state constitution to have the tax pay for roads.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Theres always ways of fixing the government. To say the government cant do something is like saying the corporations are there for us. We dont vote for the corporate leaders, they are running a business. Just like Health Care Insurance companies, all corporations are out for a profit. John a big guy on less government, more privatization. Now Im not out to nationalize everything, only Health Care. I do want to see, however, more funds directed toward mass transit. In cities will this will work of course.
________
Hotels in mexico

[Viking Prince]

Theres always ways of fixing the government. To say the government cant do something is like saying the corporations are there for us. We dont vote for the corporate leaders, they are running a business. Just like Health Care Insurance companies, all corporations are out for a profit. John a big guy on less government, more privatization. Now Im not out to nationalize everything, only Health Care. I do want to see, however, more funds directed toward mass transit. In cities will this will work of course.

There is a reason why politicians should not try to manage business enterprises. The AIG bailout is an excellant expamle. Politicians decided that AIG should not fail and thus propped up the company. Once propped up, the company proceeded to honor obligations (the intent of the bailout) and among the obligations were a real large pile of bonus ppayments.

If the company had fallen into bankruptcy, the bonus obligations would have been voided. Politicians think that when something does not work politically, the legislators just get back together and renegotiate a new deal.

Businesses and contracts are not auto do overs. This is not a knock just at Pres. Obama or the democrats, all politicians think this way. This is why obligations such as social security are such a mess. The election next month matters more than any contractual obligation 20 years down the road.

Those who want the government to do more and take over more of the private sector do not understand the potential for damage such activities can lead to.

[Sphere]

Gas tax and low-bid contracting isn't a perfect system, but in general it is better than an all private system.

I have taken a transportation engineering class; and a key point in how a road operates is flowrate, ie cars passing a certain point per hour. From a pure mathematical standpoint, the highest flowrate is at low speeds and high density (traffic). This may seem counter intuative to a passanger trying to get from one place to another, but is true when you consider the system as a whole.

A for profit company running a toll road therefor would be inclined to let traffic congest, as a road at peak flowrate is the most profitable, not a road with the fastest commute for a driver. Indeed I have run through the tolls going into Chicago, and they are sluggish compared to an open interstate.

A gas tax makes more sense because it is weighted in the opposite direction. Miles spent driving at high speed consume more gas, and making the roads easier to use and faster get more people to drive and consume gas. The real problem with a gas tax is that state politicians find it difficult to raise the tax to keep up with demand for roads, especially when gas is expensive. That is a classic problem with any government program; supply and demand not being directly linked. However, the gas tax, unlike other taxes, is more linked to demand because there is a connection between road use and gas bought. So in my opinion, the problems with a public systems are outwieghed by the benefits to the driver over a private system.

[The Devil's Sergeant]

A for profit company running a toll road therefor would be inclined to let traffic congest, as a road at peak flowrate is the most profitable, not a road with the fastest commute for a driver. Indeed I have run through the tolls going into Chicago, and they are sluggish compared to an open interstate.

You are wrong here. A private toll road ought to maximize revenue, not flow rate. To maximize revenue it must deliver value to its individual customers, whom I think we can safely presume value a speedy personal commute over an optimal for everyone.

[Viking Prince]

Again, the advantage of tolls is the fee is paid for the use of the system, A fuel tax allow legislators and government bureaucrats to allocate the funds to projects which may and probably will mean the money paid in goes to projects of no use to the specific taxpayer.

A problem with toll roads have to do with low use but socially valuable roads similar with why the power company charges for capacity as well as actual use.

There is also the issue of roads used in poor areas that may need a subsidy.

There are also private associations as opposed to toll roads such as the homeowners association owning the access residential roads within the residential community.

[Kiljan Arslan]

one question how are we to have accountability with these corporations?

[The Devil's Sergeant]

one question how are we to have accountability with these corporations?

If you don't like the road don't drive it. That is holding the corporation accountable.

[Kiljan Arslan]

yeah its a bit different considering my tax dollars origionally paid for that ing road. Also its a bit difference than buying a different computer if you don't like the one you have you can buy a different one just like that. ROads are a biuit different though threey allow a corporationa monopoly of a route. Also what if your place of business is on that road you have to use it. And you have no actual say over the road how is that fair?

[The Devil's Sergeant]

yeah its a bit different considering my tax dollars origionally paid for that ing road. Also its a bit difference than buying a different computer if you don't like the one you have you can buy a different one just like that. ROads are a biuit different though threey allow a corporationa monopoly of a route. Also what if your place of business is on that road you have to use it. And you have no actual say over the road how is that fair?

In the case of a previously public road, the operator often pays a rent to the state. So as a taxpayer you are being reimbursed.

Second, except in the case of a lone toll bridge to an island, toll roads are seldom if ever the only feasible route for one place to another. Certainly probable that it could be the most convienent since that is the whole point. As far as toll bridges go to islands, the tolls largely exist to keep the riff raff out. (BTW If you want to see paradise on Earth go to Captiva Island off of Fort Myers Florida. My god is it ever beautiful. Be prepared to pay a hefty toll though!)

As I say above it is doubtful that your place of business can only be reached via a toll road (except as in the case of an island in which case your business and clientelle are not of the type that are seriously harmed by the limited access a toll imposes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of toll roads, but they do have their place.

[Kiljan Arslan]

In the case of a previously public road, the operator often pays a rent to the state. So as a taxpayer you are being reimbursed.

Second, except in the case of a lone toll bridge to an island, toll roads are seldom if ever the only feasible route for one place to another. Certainly probable that it could be the most convienent since that is the whole point. As far as toll bridges go to islands, the tolls largely exist to keep the riff raff out. (BTW If you want to see paradise on Earth go to Captiva Island off of Fort Myers Florida. My god is it ever beautiful. Be prepared to pay a hefty toll though!)

As I say above it is doubtful that your place of business can only be reached via a toll road (except as in the case of an island in which case your business and clientelle are not of the type that are seriously harmed by the limited access a toll imposes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of toll roads, but they do have their place.

I'd still rather have it so the state controls the roads, minor roads sure but then the state probably couldn't afford to keep them up anyways.

and an Island in the same area of FLorida paradise? No way paradise is the boundry waters and the Adirondacks

[Gideon Goldgod]

Roads are created and taken care of by states, done.

You pay for this with your State Inspections, Registrations, License Plates, and your Driver's License directly for everything having to do with transportation.
Basically, roads are more than taken care of with the money paid by every single person owning a vehicle. The question comes up though, what does your state govt do with the money they get from these large taxes on transportation? If you have potholes on your highways, your taxes are being obviously bait and switched before your eyes.

No, there is no need for toll roads.