AI cavalry problem

**nvrbad** · March 13, 2009, 09:22 PM

I was playing as the Knights Templar and entered a battle. I cant remember who I was fighting but I outnumbered them 800+ soldiers to 500 soldiers. After a few minutes I had over 300 troops left and the AI only had it's General's bodyguard. Sounds easy enough. I sent all 300 of my troops against the AI's cavalry and surrounded him. 20 of his cavalry killed all 300 of my troops. I had Templar Spearmen and Sergeant Spearmen. All 300 dead and I managed to only kill 13 of his horses.

Is this normal? Is cavalry unstoppable, even if its stationary and not able to charge?

**Navajo Joe** · March 14, 2009, 01:01 AM

Now, that sounds like the armoured bulldozer, aka Fatimid General Bodyguard, your Spearmen don't probably have armour or are leather padded, you need to build a blacksmith or better asap. Best of luck
The best tactics is Stakes, if you have any archers that can do it and tempt him to impale himself. Wait for Crossbows, jolly effective against armour

**Smikis** · March 14, 2009, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by Navajo Joe

Now, that sounds like the armoured bulldozer, aka Fatimid General Bodyguard, your Spearmen don't probably have armour or are leather padded, you need to build a blacksmith or better asap. Best of luck
The best tactics is Stakes, if you have any archers that can do it and tempt him to impale himself. Wait for Crossbows, jolly effective against armour

this couldnt be any more misleading that it is.. and nowhere near correct , stakes doesnt help for EDIT , when fighting stationary fight.. . crossbows wont kill general.. well they will after shooting for literally 5-10 mins

what was actual scenario, is that all you troops were exhausted .. and nowhere near to theirs full capacity.. general probably still wasnt tired..

and it was probably king, or one of best generals.. it might silly, but those with full command stars +

s of dread + other

.. just are immortal.. i had similar encounter too..

best was when i was sieging castle.. 2.2k vs 500.. i had 500 left alive.. in the end

strong generals just have huge effect.. . and if your tired troops went head on with general.. and he charged, you probably lost half of those 300 before even surrounding him

rest probably ran in fear soon after

Bypassing the profanity filter is against forum rules.

- Caesar Clivus

**Santiago de Pola** · March 14, 2009, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Navajo Joe

The best tactics is Stakes

Stakes are an exploit IMHO..as AI never deploys them.

**nvrbad** · March 14, 2009, 09:55 AM

Yeah, my guys were probably pretty tired. I didnt consider that or their armor (which was leather padded). I guess I should be proud that they fought to the last man and never gave up though...lol.

**Smikis** · March 14, 2009, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by nvrbad

Yeah, my guys were probably pretty tired. I didnt consider that or their armor (which was leather padded). I guess I should be proud that they fought to the last man and never gave up though...lol.

it doesnt matter if it leater or fullplate, its armor value that matters.. ( unless your using some combat mods )

**Navajo Joe** · March 14, 2009, 05:34 PM

Smikis,
I find your answer very interesting as you seem to think that I have not fought a Fatimid General before. My reply previously was based on experience I had when fighting the Egyptians in my Norway campaign. I was using 6.1 with RR/RC and BGR 3 and finished a Grand campaign.
I had to always bear in mind that Norwegian troops really are not best suited to the hot and arrid conditions of the Outremer. I adopted the following stances:

Defensive: Norse Archers deploy stakes and disable skirmish, these guys are capable infantry(Sorry Santiago, done purely to protect them, never used in a settlement or offensively). Behind them Spear Miltia, armoured to best level and then Viking Raiders armored likewise. The Fatimid infantry are drawn to the infantry, the General sits back and waits, finally he draws to close and is engaged by Spearmen and no matter, how many stars he is dead!

Offensive:
Spear Miltia advance in line, followed by Viking Raiders, with Norse Archers. The Fatimids advance, infantry first, followed by the General. Once engaged with a unit of my Spear Miltia, two other Spear units, flank him, like horns of the bull(used by the Zulu's), the Fatimid General starts to founder. Initial Spear Miltia withdraw, replaced with psycho Vikings with the axes, game, set and match(The axe a very effective weapon against armour).
I found against Eastern Generals that poorly armoured units were cut to pieces and as their armour increased their survivability did.
As for X-Bows, I sadly did not have opportunity to use them in the Outremer, but used against enemy armour in Europe. I employed the services of Arbalesters, these guys stopped any heavily armoured units put against them.
Now its would appear that the poster has said they may have been tired, but they had padded armour, so we were both right. Please, Please next time be respectful of other opinions, there is more than one way to skin a rabbit!

**Smikis** · March 14, 2009, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Navajo Joe

Smikis,
I find your answer very interesting as you seem to think that I have not fought a Fatimid General before. My reply previously was based on experience I had when fighting the Egyptians in my Norway campaign. I was using 6.1 with RR/RC and BGR 3 and finished a Grand campaign.
I had to always bear in mind that Norwegian troops really are not best suited to the hot and arrid conditions of the Outremer. I adopted the following stances:

Defensive: Norse Archers deploy stakes and disable skirmish, these guys are capable infantry(Sorry Santiago, done purely to protect them, never used in a settlement or offensively). Behind them Spear Miltia, armoured to best level and then Viking Raiders armored likewise. The Fatimid infantry are drawn to the infantry, the General sits back and waits, finally he draws to close and is engaged by Spearmen and no matter, how many stars he is dead!

Offensive:
Spear Miltia advance in line, followed by Viking Raiders, with Norse Archers. The Fatimids advance, infantry first, followed by the General. Once engaged with a unit of my Spear Miltia, two other Spear units, flank him, like horns of the bull(used by the Zulu's), the Fatimid General starts to founder. Initial Spear Miltia withdraw, replaced with psycho Vikings with the axes, game, set and match(The axe a very effective weapon against armour).
I found against Eastern Generals that poorly armoured units were cut to pieces and as their armour increased their survivability did.
As for X-Bows, I sadly did not have opportunity to use them in the Outremer, but used against enemy armour in Europe. I employed the services of Arbalesters, these guys stopped any heavily armoured units put against them.
Now its would appear that the poster has said they may have been tired, but they had padded armour, so we were both right. Please, Please next time be respectful of other opinions, there is more than one way to skin a rabbit!

look lets get this straight.. first off , i said im not using any combat mods.. so your experience with rc wont be as mine

second every general is same.. pagan Islam.. orthodox or Cristian.. apart skin, and maybe few stats differ.. they are same ( apart from traits.. hp traits.. command traits etc )

i dunno what kind armor difference there is in rc.. i doubt its anythign different from vanila.. as many factions dont have full plate and such.. and thus if mail/fullplate would make units much more stronger compared to padded/leather , it would be op.. and as i read.. its pretty much same

you can create unit with armor as padded.. and exatly same unit with 20 armor as full plate.. hey.. i might be wrong.. but im 99,9% sure.. those units will go on equal foot.. and fullplate wont beat padded armor

armor upgrades are nice, but you forgetting.. apart updated look ( which sadly not every faction have ) and + 1 armor.. they doesnt make unit somewhat special

small edit.. seems 4.1 and 5,1 includes rc .. i dunno if 6.2 does.. if it does.. then there is no real change in armor values with some incredible effect ( apart maybe from arrows ) in it too..
can someone confirm if there is rc in 6,2 and if there is any need to update it.. from mini mods?

**Caesar Clivus** · March 14, 2009, 07:31 PM

RC has been in SS since version 4 and that hasn't changed. The version in SS6.1 is older than the current version PB has released with RR in the submods thread. Currently there is no version of the new RC without RR but I believe Gracul is going to give that option in a future 6.2 release

**crsutton** · March 15, 2009, 08:26 AM

Did you attack with your spearmen or set them up in good defensive formations to receive the attack of the bodyguard cavalry? (schiltrom) That could have made the difference as spearmen out of defensive formation are much more prone to die.

**nvrbad** · March 15, 2009, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by crsutton

Did you attack with your spearmen or set them up in good defensive formations to receive the attack of the bodyguard cavalry? (schiltrom) That could have made the difference as spearmen out of defensive formation are much more prone to die.

The General's cavalry was stationary. It was engaged with my General's cavalry so I ordered all my remaining troops to attack. My troops (about 300)came from all sides and surrounded them. About 4 mintues later all my troops were dead and he lost just over half of his cavalry. He had no time to charge or even move when I attacked. His cavalry just went toe to toe with my troops and slaughtered them.

**Viscule** · March 16, 2009, 08:05 AM

Its not much of a problem, more of a quality check.

Low grade spearmen are well.. peasants comparing them to the egyptian generals and the egyptian generals are armoured heavy cavalry of the elite. They are also well known for their cavalry.

My general could probably charge right into a unit of spearmen and not lose even one soldiers, because they are of the lower grade of units.

Just means you lack the soldiers to kill him or what i would do: constant charges to a cavalrys behind usually kills off one soldier or more depending on what cavalry it is. While the front taking the hits is just cannon fodder.

By surrounding him you basically gave him the advantage as he cant run even if we wanted to so he massacred your puny spearmen. Not to mention your units lose the ability to charge being glued to the damned general in the first place. The first time you attacked the general is probably when he lost the most soldiers, because of the charge.