Diplomacy Problem List

[aeoleron9]

I like making lists, so here we go:

Short Version:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

On Relations:
-Expansion Penalty too harsh.
-Expansion Penalty doesn't take account of total region, so you can have less regions than you started with but still get tons of penalty.

-AI not forming alliances
-AI not asking for peace even when they're losing,
-AI not making protectorate offers when they're winning

On Diplomatic Exchanges:
-No hints to tell you how balanced your offer is (like in previous titles
-Not enough AI counteroffers, so we never know what they want
-AI doesn't accept haggling
-AI relentlessly asking for one region, to the point they'd trade several regions for one
-All State Gifts give the same relation? and they give way more relation than regular gifts(like money and regions

On Relations:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-Always "Enemy's enemy is my friend" because everybody is at war with pirates and Barbary.
-No "at war with my ally" or "refused to help an ally" penalties.
-There are"War with my friend" and "Unreliable Ally" penalties, but they are buggy and inconsistent.
-No "share borders" penalties.
-Religion effects are near null
-No penalty for turning down offers

-Territorial Expansion Penalty too harsh. Should make it specific to the faction's theatre, so American factions will only hate you more for taking American land, but won't care as much if you grab a land in India. (apparently already in place
-Expansion Penalty doesn't take account of total region, so you can have less regions than you started with but still get tons of penalty.

-You make peace/alliance/protectorate with an enemy, but your allies are still at war with them. Allies should automatically ceasefire when you got a treaty.
-Protectorates are easier to make but still aren't worth it. Can’t ask their military assistance, and their land don't count toward your total regions anymore.

-AI not forming alliances
-AI not asking for peace even when they're about to get killed.
-AI breaking off trade agreements for no reason

-Rebels will fight with their original nation. For example you take Alsace Lorraine and let it rebel. The emergent France troops will fight with regular French troops.

On Diplomatic Exchanges:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-No hints to tell you how balanced your offer is (like in previous titles
-Not enough AI counteroffers, so we never know what they want
-AI doesn't accept any haggling with counteroffers
-Tech trading too hard
-Military Access too hard
-Even trade agreements are sometimes pretty hard to get

-State Gifts aren't cumulative, and all three types add similar amount of relation
-State Gifts give more relation than if you gift a region

-Peace offers too easily accepted, and there's too little penalty for breaking a treaty.
-AI relentlessly asking for one region, to the point they'd trade several regions for one. Then next turn they want those traded regions back

-Protectorate factions have bugged diplomacy, even if they break off from protector they still can't make alliances

Feature Wishlist:

-Option to tell the AI to declare war or make peace. This is for us to babysit the AI when it’s making dumb decisions, but if the AI is fixed then imo it’s a little redundant and exploitable.
-Option to break off protectorate peacefully. Right now protector and protectorate can only break their relation by war. Also, you should be able to force someone else to release his protectorate.
-Option to restore a destroyed/emergent nation in your lands.
-Option to ally with foreign revolutions and re-emerged rebels


Any other issues you've had with diplomacy that I left out?

[Pugman]

Nice list...here's more:

- If you want to declare war on another faction but they're allied with someone you don't want to go to war with, just attack their protectorate if they have one. Then the protector will declare war on you but their allies will not. The real issue here is allies should *always* be at war with their allies enemies. Otherwise what is the point in being an ally.

- Religion seems to play no real role in diplomacy. Great Britain and United Provinces will stay allied with Austria come hell or high water. I even tried getting them both to very friendly and allied with me but they still sided with Austria in the war, even though Austria does not like them.

In general someone at CA just needs to actually play this game and fix the very obvious issues. It would be great if they would use Civ4 as an example of how to do diplomacy.

[NONOPUST]

Good list

[XiombargDei]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-No "at war with my ally" or "refused to help an ally" penalties.

why that ?

i would add :
more penalty when you refuse a diplomatic proposal without making a counter-offer that is accepted.
The Ai makes you an offer -> you just close the window -> -5 points. Implement this only after getting rid of the AI diplo spam

[Pahoo]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-No "at war with my ally" or "refused to help an ally" penalties.

why that ?

i would add :
more penalty when you refuse a diplomatic proposal without making a counter-offer that is accepted.
The Ai makes you an offer -> you just close the window -> -5 points. Implement this only after getting rid of the AI diplo spam

Too harsh.

It isn't really the spam as the problem (although its annoying), but the ridiculous nature of the requests altogether.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Minor nations that I were part of an enemy allie's war with me, for some stupid reason even if they are in India and I'm in Europe REFUSE to declare peace after I've declared peace with their ally I had the main war with.

[WRL]

Yeah, as Prussia, I just conquered the Rheinland, and France and Spain ask every turn for it, offering up two to three provinces and a chunk of cash for it, I of course refuse, I'm trying to unit Germany, then I'll be unstoppable. Having overseas provinces is enticing, but so is German unification.

I have found getting peace treaties difficult sometimes, I was at war with Courland, and as I was focused on my German unification I wasn't to worried about them, but they keep attacking me, forcing me to keep a good size army in Prussia to defend when they could have been put to better use, I tried for many turns to get a peace treaty offering generous terms, but they always refused, so I finally had to deal with them, oh well. Austria is also a problem getting a peace treaty with, been trying for a long while, but I guess I'll have to hand their a** to them before they'll consider it, but first German unification!

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Yeah, as Prussia, I just conquered the Rheinland, and France and Spain ask every turn for it, offering up two to three provinces and a chunk of cash for it, I of course refuse, I'm trying to unit Germany, then I'll be unstoppable. Having overseas provinces is enticing, but so is German unification.

I have found getting peace treaties difficult sometimes, I was at war with Courland, and as I was focused on my German unification I wasn't to worried about them, but they keep attacking me, forcing me to keep a good size army in Prussia to defend when they could have been put to better use, I tried for many turns to get a peace treaty offering generous terms, but they always refused, so I finally had to deal with them, oh well. Austria is also a problem getting a peace treaty with, been trying for a long while, but I guess I'll have to hand their a** to them before they'll consider it, but first German unification!

Capture 2 of their cities (im talking Austria here) in one turn, they will give peace.

[Eastern Weasel]

Capture 2 of their cities (im talking Austria here) in one turn, they will give peace.

that, and destroying their whole army that turn too didnt worked with Marathans for me...

[aeoleron9]

Updated

The AI accept peace offers very easily after they take some beating. Easy to exploit by taking one city=>treaty=>take another, rinse and repeat.

-No "at war with my ally" or "refused to help an ally" penalties.

why that ?

Why not that? If they won't make alliances more unified, then these factors should be taken in.

[naylor]

I'd like it if there was an option to request that Nation X makes peace with Nation Y, like in Civilization IV.

For example, I'm Great Britain. Sweden is one of my largest trade partners, yet is blockading the ports of one of my other large trade partners: Prussia. I don't want war with Sweden (as I'm currently funding huge armies in America and India), so it'd be nice if I could ask/pay Sweden to make peace with Prussia.

[Pugman]

I'd like it if there was an option to request that Nation X makes peace with Nation Y, like in Civilization IV.

For example, I'm Great Britain. Sweden is one of my largest trade partners, yet is blockading the ports of one of my other large trade partners: Prussia. I don't want war with Sweden (as I'm currently funding huge armies in America and India), so it'd be nice if I could ask/pay Sweden to make peace with Prussia.

Agreed. I had this in mind as well and forgot to list it.

[aeoleron9]

I can't believe I forgot this one:
-AI not asking for peace even when they're about to get killed.

BTW, does anyone think that letting the player make unlimited diplomatic attempts per turn is a bit unfair? The AI can only do it once per turn. This'll also become a problem for the upcoming mp campaign..

[wojto]

- AI not really looking to sign trade agreements. AI should try to find as many trade partners as possible just as human players do.
- Bonus to relations for trade agreement should be lower and strongly dependant on volume of trade.

[aeoleron9]

- AI not really looking to sign trade agreements

Hmm, but I've heard several opposite reports that the AI always keeps its trade lanes full, to the point it's too hard to get an opening..

[Baka_yarou_elRey]

I've had the AI accept a peace treaty with me. I'm playing as GB and my ally Portugal are attacked by Spain, so I go to war with Spain. As I was busy getting rid of the Hurons and Cherokees in NA I didn't bother to field any armies against Spain, I just raided their trade routes. A couple of turns later Austria and France go to war (can't remember who started it) but I then went to war with France. So there's me and my allies against Spain and France. Eventually Spain takes Lisbon and destroys Portugal (they didn't seem that bad off when I sailed by ) so there's no longer any reason for me to be at war with Spain (much prefer to wipe out those Frenchies first) and I offer them a peace treaty which they accept straight away, but they're still hostile towards me. But yeah, I agree with the idea of you telling Nation A and B to cool it, cos I've got trade agreements with the two Indian factions, and an alliance with one, and one of them is constantly blockaded.

Oh yeah and good list. There's something else that I thought should've been in it but I can't remember what but also, something that I read somewhere else is- being loaned an ally's, or protectorate's, units especially when you're defending them. So an option of loaning out some troops could be added (dunno if everyone would like that.)

[thdot44]

Good list, +r for the effort.

[Björneborgs regemente]

Good list, keep it up, rep to you.

[Alkarin]

Ai accepts peace too easily? they always refuse to accept peace with me EVER. then again i have -600 relations with everyone due to my territorial expansion


should add 'attack nation X' option like in the older TW games

[aeoleron9]

Updated.

BTW I saw an alliance broken message today in RtI 3rd so I guess that one's off the list.